Q&A MISC. Bread Questions
Until we can figure out a more sophisticated way to handle your feedback, your praise and your questions, we hope the following series of Q&A posts will help. Our goal is to get a conversation going about a particular topic in one location. Hoping that it will be easier for you to follow and get the information you need to bake gorgeous bread.
If we haven’t started a thread on the subject you are interested in then leave it here and we can create another post!
Thank you so much for all of the conversation. We enjoy it immensely and are learning so much from you all!
Zoë and Jeff
Hello Jeff and Zoe,
I have had great success with your techniques, and I am now eager to try your recipe for Sticky Pecan Caramel rolls. However, I cannot imagine being able to roll out the dough to 1/8 inch thick.
I checked the errors page, and this isn’t listed… however, not all of the errors listed appear in my copy of the book, so maybe I have a new/different edition?
Hi Denise,
It is no mistake and you will be surprised just how thin you can roll the dough. If you choose not to roll it this thin, you will just end up with a slightly breadier sticky bun!
Enjoy! Zoë
Hi Ceinan,
Great minds think alike! We have a banana bread in our new book, which will be out later this year!
Happy Baking! Zoë
Hi Jeff and Zoe,
I read about someone bringing breads for sale to the farmer’s market, and wondering if I could do the same in the upcoming season. People need to be creative in this economy. And your method makes it so much easier!
What I am thinking of doing is parbaking the bread till it’s almost done, on the stone. Then letting it cool, wrapping it in something, and freezing it. I would sell it frozen (I have a superlarge cooler). I could give the buyer instructions on how to finish baking the bread.
The benefits to me are that I could bake the bread whenever I want and wouldn’t have to worry about getting it to market that day so it would be fresh.
The benefit to the buyer is that they would have a crusty bread when they want, and wouldn’t need to have a stone.
When I have given defrosted challahs to people, I have always given them to people wrapped in foil. And then I told them to heat it up for 10-15 minutes in the oven. But I don’t think I should do that with a crusty bread.
Any suggestions on how I could do this? Also, any suggestions as to how to figure out what the cost of making the breads and how to figure out what to charge would be great.
Second question–a friend brought back some corn deli rye from Los Angeles, the kind I grew up with. The caraway seeds on top of your deli rye are nice, but can I just put cornmeal on top of your recipe to do this?
I’m getting a good reputation for being a good baker here.
Thanks so much!!!
Judy
Hi, Jeff and Zoe,
I am LOVING this book. My one comment is that once I have a batch of dough made up, I have to search through the book s.l.o.w.l.y to find out different ways to use it. I think it would be helpful to have a chart in the front or back to the effect of “Once I have the dough, how can I use it?” when you put out another edition.
Thanks so much for your wonderful book!
Karen
your book just received; I read the whole thing and have even MORE ideas to add and mix…
elderly with health issues, I am confined to a large capacity outdoor toaster oven (with rotisserie which gives the added height). Adding steam sent the heat down from 425° (its max) to 300, pronto! so I bake in terra cotta flower pots (of various sizes!) that has been oil smeared, along with the saucer for top, and heated in cold oven to 400, cooled in oven, repeated 3x. Pictures telll the story! Always put off by bread even though I have cooked and baked just about everything under this sun, I recently read on a blog that one could use their cold oven to allow the dough to rise (I need to keep my living quarters around 62 at all times to breathe) AND IT WORKS SO WELL with your Master Recipe that I have baked 20 loaves (I got original recipe from a blog 3 weeks ago) of various flavors for my family (dill, caramelized garlic, fresh Rosemary, tumeric, cumin, coriander powders, fennel seed, celery seeds, lemon pepper – if I can get my fingers on it, it’s in it!) and in every single instance the oven spring was an experience that everyone should have to encourage them to reach out to try more complicated loaves…THANK YOU for persistence in getting this out to those of us who NEED healthy, untoxed food. Having had digestive problems (due to many meds) I stopped eating bread as it was most bothersome; THIS BREAD HAS GIVEN ME ABSOULTELY NO PROBLEM and like your grandmother, I, too, prefer a piece of that great rye with the taste and smell of old world caraway with cheese and butter against any dessert (well, I might relent with Rugelesh) but one of my 5 year old great-grandsons prefers the Challah! What a great transformation you and Zoe have put into motion with the bottom line of a healthier, ‘back to basics’ – more homey, hands-on daily-doable method. I was impressed with the bake-ahead-partially-take-it-with-you part!!! May you and your family, along with Zoe and her family, have an absolutely brand New Year! (Each morning gets more exciting with still untried recipes just to hear that crackly crust each time!). Afterall, the Creator gave the grain for flour, the water, salt and yeasty-things!!!
Thank you Karen,
It is a great idea and one we are trying to work on for our next book!
So glad you are enjoying the bread!
Zoë
About that thin crust pizza . . . if your oven has controls just above the door — remove them before cracking open the oven, or they will melt.
Sorry to ask so many questions, but I am really excited!
I baked my first baguettes. Really tasty and crusty, but misshapen. I was wondering how those baguette baking pans would work, instead of using a stone. Would the shape be more uniform, round? Would it stay crusty? I brought a boule and a baguette to a party and people liked the crustiness of the baguette better.
Judy: We have parbaking intructions on page 24 of the book, just go with that.
And of course, cornmeal or any other topping will work… that’s to your taste.
We like those baguette pans with the perforations– work nicely. Very crusty.
Lizzie: Thanks for your comments and your enthusiasm. So great to hear that this works in a toaster oven!!
I love your book–I’ve been baking from it since I bought it last spring!
Yesterday, eating brunch at a restaurant, I had the most wonderful buttery, chewy yet crusty roll–it looked like it had been baked touching other rolls–the sides were crustless. I can’t just dump some melted butter into the boule or Pain d’Epi recipe and have it work, can I? Is a buttery chewy bread possible with the 5 minute method? What adjustments would have to be made? Help–I’m craving that bread!
Sure– use one of our enriched doughs like Soft American-Style White Bread in the book. Form balls and place them apart from each other in a baking pan (grease it even if it’s non-stick). They’ll “grow” into each other. You have to experiment for how far apart. Start with about an inch of clearance for golf-ball sized rolls (golf-ball sized before baking).
Brush with a little more butter if you want, bake at usual temp but for less time–they’re little. Jeff
Thank you very much for getting back to me on the parbaking, Jeff! I did see it in the book. Just wasn’t sure how it would work with freezing. Guess I’ll have to do some testing.
I purchased my copy of the book, and returned the library’s copy. They said it’s a good thing that I got my own copy, there’s a number of people waiting to borrow the book!
Have a great day. I intend to make a donation to Second Harvest in your honor.
Thanks Judy!
I just made your master boule recipe for the very first time last monday. I had very good results when I baked a loaf after the dough rose overnight in the refrigerator. However, tonight, (1 week later) I baked a second loaf. I shaped it and let it stand on the counter till it came to room temperature approx. 1 1/2 hrs. It did not rise at all in the oven. I did notice that the dough had formed a slight crust in the refrigerator and under the crust, the dough was very liquidy. Do you think I killed the yeast? What did I do wrong. I am so disappointed now.
Diane: I don’t think the yeast died. You said it “didn’t rise,” but you didn’t say that it was dense and without air holes. So I’m guessing it expanded sideways rather than upward, so it looks like there was no expansion. This is more of a problem later in the batch, as you’ve found. Watch our videos https://artisanbreadinfive.com/?page_id=63 on how to “cloak” the loaf as you shape it. This contains the sideways spread.
Am I on the right track? Jeff
Has anyone tried baking the bread in a Romertopf clay cooker? Could you put it in the oven with the dough in it cold? Or do you need to heat the empty cooker to 450 and then dump the dough in? If you preheat, you will lose any steam that results from soaking the pot. Does the dough stick to the insides??
Haven’t tried it yet Dorothy, but I will. I’d closely follow the directions that come with the Romertopf. Rose Levy Beranbaum in “The Bread Bible” says she ignores the direction to soak the top in water. She also preheats the oven stone rather than preheating the base of the clay vessel.
My guess is that the clay bakers don’t offer much advantage over baking in an enameled cast-iron vessel, but I need to test this.
Hi Jeff and Zoe,
I appreciate your help so much! Check Jeff’s email for the e-card for Second Harvest Donation. Thanks.
Judy
HELP! I just got your book and have been trying to master the master boule recipe. No matter what I do, the dough is so wet that I simply cannot cloak it. It drips right off my hands and into the sink. I followed the directions religiously, but I’ve gone through 10 lb of flour and I still get the same result. FINALLY I added 1/2 cup more flour, but it was still way too wet. What can I do?
Jeff, you are right. It did expand sideways but not upwards. I do think that it was only slightly more dense than the first loaf. It did taste good though. I will check out the link and let you know how my next loaf turns out. Thanks so much for replying to me request.
Does anyone why my (master)dough turns gray on top after a few days in the fridge? Could it be my water? Or the kind of salt I use? (I use regular table salt; I read that I can use it by reducing the amount from 1 and 1/2 tablespoons to 1 tablespoon. It’s iodized. Does that matter?) The gray part gets mixed into the boule and forms gray streaks–not attractive.
Hi Judith,
There are two things that come to min right away.
1. Are you using unbleached flour? The bleached flour has too little protein and will result in a dough that is too wet.
2. Are you using the scoop and sweep method of measuring your flour? If you spoon the flour into the measuring cup it will result in too little flour and again your dough will be too wet!
Do either of these sound like they could be the problem?
Thanks, Zoë
Hi Debbie,
This gray liquid is a natural by product of the dough. You have probably also noticed a slightly alcoholic smell to it as well? All of this is perfectly natural, but can be off putting.
It has happened to me, but not with every batch. It is nothing to do with the fact that you are using table salt. I think it is more to do with the way the dough is being stored. I find that if I seal the container too well and the alcohol from the dough is not released I get more of this. Also if I leave the dough undisturbed for several days without baking from it, it happens more quickly. Just the small amount of flour that I sprinkle over the top to get the dough out of the bucket seems to prevent it from happening.
I have to admit it is a bit of a mystery and I’ll have to research it further.
If you only have a little bit of dough left and this happens, I recommend that you mix this dough into your next fresh batch. It will jump start the flavor of the new dough.
Thanks! Zoë
Wow-thanks for the quick response. I’ll check the lid of my keeping bowl and be sure to sprinkle plenty of flour on top.
Hi Debbie,
Just a very light sprinkle of flour, not so much as to form a crust on the dough. It is nothing I do intentionally, just the excess flour from taking the dough out of the bucket.
Thanks, Zoë
I could not find information about “cloaking” to contain sideways spread. However I did read more of the posts on this thread. My dough is now a week and half old. It has the fermented smell with some slightly gray liquid on top and dry top crust and underneath it is extremely liquid like. Can I just add a new batch to this or should I start from scratch. Also I did not use dough every day, but this time I will.
Hi Diane,
If your dough is 1 1/2 weeks old you may not get the dough to rise as much even with more cloaking. It is best to stick to flat breads and loaf pan breads at that point.
If you just want general instructions on cloaking you may want to check out our videos. https://artisanbreadinfive.com/?page_id=63
You are exactly right, just add the new ingredients to this older dough and it will improve your next batch of dough.
Enjoy! Zoë
Sorry for the duplicate post, (under rye bread questions), but I wasn’t sure where to ask this question … now I am.
When I freeze individual loaves, do I shape and flour prior to freezing, or do that after they are defrosted, prior to baking?
What is the approximate defrosting time in the fridge – 12 hours or 24 hours. I have read both?
How long can they stay in the freezer?
All of the above questions pertain to the dough, not previous baked loaves.
Zoe,
I am using Ceresota unbleached flour, and, yes, I am using the scoop and sweep method to measure the flour. I’m just so frustrated because the deli rye bread turned out beautifully as did the European pesant bread. Should I, perhaps, reduce the water to 2 1/2 cups?
Hi Judith,
It does make some sense that the other doughs would be coming out drier, due to the whole grains. You can certainly try reducing the water and see if that does it for you.
If you have a kitchen scale you can try weighing the flour. If so you should have 2-pounds of all-purpose flour for the master recipe.
Thanks, Zoë
Hi Jeff and Zoe,
It’s important for me to keep my baking non-dairy (parve). I’m considering making the Buttermilk raisin bread by souring soy milk. Have you tried that? Do you have any suggestions?
Thanks so much,
Judy
Hi, Jeff and Zoe,
I absolutely LOVE your book and have been having a wonderful time with it!
Today I’ve made a batch of both Broa and Olive Oil dough, but notice that the recipe says nothing about freezing it. Can these doughs be frozen, as others can?
Thanks so much!
Ilene
I am now baking my third loaf (actually individual ‘French rolls’ for sandwiches’. All three times I have poured the hot water into the preheated broiler pan, and closed the door as fast as I could without leaving my hand inside – and all three times the quick splurt of steam was lost before the oven door was closed.
For the remainder of the baking time, the water just pretty much sits there emitting only a very very small amount of steam. Is it only the initial splurt of steam that helps the crust or the continual small amount of steam?
Another question … you advise not to wash the initial rising container and making your next batch of dough in it. What if the previous batch was the Master Recipe and the next batch is Challah, etc… can you keep using the same unwashed container indefinitely, no matter what recipe you make?
2 questions:
1. book says to put dough in a non-air tight container then recommends the King Arthur’s container, which sure seems air tight to me. Confused about this. Is it ok to go in the sealed plastic tub once the dough is going in the refrigerator?
2. I have the gaggenau steam over which has the option misting the dough without opening the door, obviating the whole pan with steam situation. Don’t know how many people have it but it seems tailor made for bread.
I made the olive oil dough and it didn’t rise after several hours. I could see air bubbles forming from the yeast. By the next day the dough was the consistancy of pancake dough. I added more yeast and flour, but after a few more hours of resting it didn’t form much of a dough that could be formed.
My yeast was good a few days ago and I followed the recipe exactly, any idea what the problem with this dough could be?
Ellen: I freeze dough after the initial rise, in loaf-sized portions in as airtight a container or plastic bag as I can get. They defrost well overnight in the fridge; 8 to 12 hours has always been enough for me. Then quickly shape and rest on the counter as usual.
Judy: Many readers tell us that soy milk works, so go with it.
Ilene: Any of the doughs can be frozen.
Nina: Don’t worry about losing the initial burst, it works anyway. If it isn’t working well and you’re getting a dull hard thick crust (because your oven is “leaky” and vents away steam), consider spraying with water from a food-grade sprayer bottle, three times in the first couple of minutes (every thirty seconds).
And about egg-enriched doughs… I generally wash those containers after each use.
Rachel: Many well-fitted plastic lids are basically airtight, so you have to leave them a crack open, at least in the first 48 hours or so. After that you can usually seal them. That Gaggenau sounds perfect, I’m sure that’s what it’s for.
Paul: Questions– are you using unbleached all purpose flour? Are you refrigerating after the initial 2 hours? Are you starting with lukewarm (not hot) water? Jeff
I have some bleached flour to use up so that is what I am using.
I refrigerate after a minimum of 2 hours. Last night I went 4 after more flour and yeast.
I’m using warm water.
Paul
How about a post on making King Cakes. I’ve been looking at a few recipes and realized that it looks similar to a brioche or challah dough. And it’s Carnival season a great time to make King Cakes.
I’d love a cream cheese filled recipe or how to post
Hi Zoe and Jeff!
Just got your book and am already addicted! And thank you so much for taking the time to do the Q&A’s you guys are amazing!!
My questions is, and forgive me if you have answered it elsewhere, I have searched for hours! I am dying to make the pita, for me there is nothing better than fresh baked pita! I don’t have a stone yet, I have been using a silpat on a perforated baking sheet for my loaves with great results, but my silpat isn’t supposed to be used at 500 degrees. I’m not sure what result I would get baking the pitas at a lower temp, I really want the “puff” for stuffing them! Any suggestions? Or do I need to learn patience until I get a stone?? :)Thanks so much!!
Which dough recipe could I use to make cinnamon rolls? I wanted to make some with the master recipe as I have some in my refigerator right now. I also use it for the pizza dough and everyone loves it! I love how easy it is, and my husband and kids (and even their friends)are all learning to use the dough too!If you have a cinnamon roll recipe, I’d appreciate!Thanks!
Paul: The recipe isn’t designed for bleached flour– not enough protein. Try again with unbleached and you’ll get a completely different result.
Lace: Laissez le bon temps roullez, yes? Maybe we should do this around Mardi Gras?
Holly: Dont’ overheat your silicone mat, you’re right to be cautious. My guess is that the puff may not happen without the stone– that’s what gives maximum oven spring and sudden vaporization inside the loaf–it’s what opens up the pocket. I have to admit I never even tested pita without a stone. But why not try on a greased cookie sheet? You can always slit it after the fact.
Jorie: The most enriched version is on page 187 of the book, a brioche– here’s a version– https://artisanbreadinfive.com/?p=357, but I have to make a plug for people to buy the book: https://tinyurl.com/4as4qd to purchase from amazon) 🙂
Hi Zoe and Jeff,
Is it possible to substitute all purpose flour with bread flour in any of the recipes? If yes, how much should I decrease or increase the flour by? Also, is there any recipes you would not recommend to make this substitution? Thanks.
You can use bread flour but in order to keep the moisture constant you should increase the liquids by about 1/8 to 1/4 cup.
I wouldn’t do this for brioche, which is intended to be tender (though the result would still be OK).
I am getting better at this. Because my oven vents steam, I am using a taller, older roasting pan for water. I add 3 times as much as it seems to work.
Jeff, you mentioned freezing loaf size portions. Sorry to be dense but is that the size of a regular loaf pan? Also, how large of a loaf can one make? I see where some no-knead breads get baked in an enameled cast iron pot (which I do not have nor can afford). Is there a way to get a large loaf without the pot? Thank you.
Maureen: The loaf pan we like (on amazon at https://tinyurl.com/c826ua) is billed to take 1-pound of dough (grapefruit-sized) but it actually makes a prettier loaf when you use about 1 1/2 pounds (cantaloupe-sized).
Big loaves can be made free-form; you don’t need a closed iron pot. They just take longer. A three or four pound loaf can take close to an hour (watch it because there are many variables). Jeff
I am so thrilled with your book and teh bread I am making.
After having multiple episodes of forgetting to pull the starter out of a batch of sourdough, your method is a wonderful relief. My problem is that there are just two of us and I want to try so many things.
I’ve seen a couple of posts on freezing and storing, but am looking for a bit more info. I”m almost afraid to put this great stuff into the freezer. So on to questions:
Is there a better method between the parbaking and freezing dough?
If I freeze dough, is it better in one loaf portions or as a couple loaves together – if I’ll use the whole portion within a day or two after I thaw it?
Do I thaw in the fridge or at room temp?
Sorry to seem so ignorant, but we don’t eat that much bread, but I want to try the different recipes. Freezing seems to be the best way to do this, but it seems like it is something everyone else seems is simple and I don’t know what to do.
Thanks for a great book and a great way to make bread!
Martha: Other than making just what you need and always baking fresh, parbaking and freezing are the only two options I can think of.
For freezing, I prefer to freeze in loaf-sized portions after the initial rise. Wrap it well in ziplock bag or put in an airtight container. Then allow to defrost in the fridge for 8-12 hours. Remove and rest/rise as usual.