Q&A MISC. Bread Questions
Until we can figure out a more sophisticated way to handle your feedback, your praise and your questions, we hope the following series of Q&A posts will help. Our goal is to get a conversation going about a particular topic in one location. Hoping that it will be easier for you to follow and get the information you need to bake gorgeous bread.
If we haven’t started a thread on the subject you are interested in then leave it here and we can create another post!
Thank you so much for all of the conversation. We enjoy it immensely and are learning so much from you all!
Zoë and Jeff
Hi Jeff and Zoe,
I have been having a lot of fun with the whole wheat recipes. Altho they are stil coming out somewhat dense, they taste terrific. My question is: can I bake in my toaster oven? I just got a pizza stone designed for it. I am trying to figure out how to do the steam? Maybe cover the loaf with a disposable bread pan?
Regards,
Suzan
I forgot to put in my second question. The book that comes with my mixer says that when using the dough hook the ingredients should be at room temperature. I keep all my flours in the freezer and my yeast in the refrigerator. Should I let them ‘warm’ up before putting everything together?
Hi Suzan,
I have never tried baking in the toaster oven, but have heard from others that it works really nicely. I would start with a small loaf. You can try using a loaf pan instead of the lasagna pan for steam. I think it will work as long as you have enough room.
It is not important to let your ingredients warm up before making our recipes. If the dough is a bit colder it will just take a touch longer to rise, not a big deal at all.
Enjoy! Zoë
I am not clear on one thing. It says you can use your dough immediately after the first rise, but does that mean you can put it in the oven then or do you follow the baking day steps?
Hi Sherryl,
You still need to allow the dough to rest after you have shaped it. In the recipe we give a time for chilled dough and one for fresh dough.
Happy Baking! Zoë
I tried your English muffin recipe and it was quite tasty. However the crust was very hard and similar to using the steam method. In fact I have stopped using steam as the crust just gets too hard. Do you think there is something wrong with my oven? Also I never get large loaves but they still taste good.
Sincerely
Susan
Hi Susan,
Do you have an oven thermometer? If your oven is too hot or cool it can be having an effect on your crust. If you want a softer crust you can always brush it with butter before and/or after it comes out of the oven and that will soften it right up!
Thanks, Zoë
Hi Jeff and Zoe,
Hope you both have been doing well. I finally got my copy of your book in the mail, after using the library copy. Hurray!!!
Question on using dough that has been frozen. I made a batch of Italian Semolina dough. It rose, and I put it in the fridge. I got sick, and couldn’t bake. I got feeling a bit better at the 2-week fridge dough storage point, but not enough to bake. So I did the gluten cloaking and put the individual balls of dough into the freezer.
I defrosted the frozen dough last night in the fridge. Now the dough is still cold and a small lump. Do I wait for it to rise and warm up on the counter before I shape it? Should I have shaped it before I put it in the freezer? Just questions on how to freeze dough and use it later.
Also, why isn’t it ok to use a pyrex loaf pan that has been sprayed with nonstick spray. I really don’t want to buy more loaf pans to get nonstick, so I can make sandwich loaves.
Thanks so much. I really missed baking while I wasn’t feeling well!
Judy, TN
Hi Judy,
So glad you are feeling better!
Just treat your frozen dough as though you just pulled it out of the bucket. You will need to shape it and let it rest just as you do with refrigerated dough.
You can certainly use your pyrex loaf pan. Just be sure to grease it really well. We’ve noticed that the dough likes to stick to them.
Enjoy! Zoë
My son has a medical condition and can eat very limited salt. I have made whole wheat bread with beer and no salt and it is great. Can I omitt the salt in your bread recipes?
Thank You !!
Thanks, Zoe, but now I am a bit confused about when to do the gluten cloak. I want to freeze the dough in portions to bake. So do I do the gluten cloak when I make the individual bundles to freeze, or after the bundle is defrosted. This time, I did it both times.
I think I’ll take the tip of the poster above and make a larger loaf of the Italian Semolina next time. It’s on the pizza peel, and looks tiny!
Thanks, Judy, TN
Thanks, Judy
I have looked the recipe over and over and can only find resting times for refrigerated dough. I have been know to be blind, so could you tell me where to look?
Hi Sherryl,
It is generally right after the times for refrigerated dough, but in parenthesis. What dough were you wondering about?
Thanks, Zoë
Hi Joan,
You can eliminate the salt from any of the recipes. It will have a very different flavor but it will bake just the same!
Thanks! Zoë
Hi Judy,
I’m afraid if you shape it before baking it will end up losing its shape by the time it thaws out and you will end up having to reshape it anyway. Save yourself some time and just shape it when it thaws.
Thanks! Zoë
Hi all,
I have a storage question. I’ve made 20 loaves of bread today for a Valentine dinner on Sunday. How do you suggest I store them? I hate to freeze them for Sunday…should I wrap them in freezer paper/parchment/wax paper?? I tried to look through the questions and answers..but got bogged down. Thanks for any help! I love the book! BTW, there’s a pic of the loaves on my blog…might need to add the spritz with water.
blessings,
tonyad
Hi Tonya,
I’m afraid to say that the very best way to keep them from getting stale by Sunday is to freeze them. If you wrap them really well, freeze them right away and then heat them up for just about 10 minutes on Sunday they will be as good as new.
The recipes with more whole grains tend to last longer once baked.
Have a great party! I will come check out your blog!
Thanks, Zoë
Thanks for confirming what I was thinking;0). I appreciate the quick response.
blessings,
tonya
I like to put loaves into paper bakery bags to give away, but I can’t find any paper bags — I saw one post that said that King Arthur Flour sells them, but I only see plastic on their site now. Does anyone have any ideas?
They’re selling these vented, plastic-lined paper bags, I’m pretty sure on KAF. But personally, I think that’s going a little overboard, and I don’t think they’re all that great. Paper sandwich bags bags will work for smaller loaves.
Hello:
I’ve now made the “100% Whole Wheat Sandwich Bread” (p.76) twice, and there seems to be something wrong with that recipe. It simply doesn’t rise sufficiently. The dough also isn’t as wet and loose as the other loaves, all of which I’ve baked successfully. I noticed that there’s more flour in this recipe (6 2/3 cups) than in the other recipes, which seem to have 5.5 cups. Could the mistake lie there? I prefer eating whole grains, so I’d really, really appreciate a correction if possible.
Thanks,
Tina
I have to amend my question: the other doughs also take 6.5 cups, but maybe because whole wheat flour is denser, less should be used? By the way, I’m using King Arthur’s Traditional Whole Wheat flour, in case it matters.
Thanks again.
Tina: There’s also a lot more liquid in that recipe– in the honey, and the oil. So the has recipe worked for most people (though it can be tweaked).
I’m guessing that the King Arthur product absorbs more liquid than most WW flours, so try increasing the water by a quarter cup. I’m also guessing that you’ll like it better with vital wheat gluten (increase the water some more if you use it); check out our post on this at https://artisanbreadinfive.com/?p=142
Hi Jeff or Zoe,
I love your book and the recipes – I’m always in charge of bringing fresh bread wherever I go- but recently I’ve had a problem with the shape of my loaves after they’re baked. I made two loaves of rye bread, they looked great when I put them in the oven. When they were done, it looked they both exploded from the side. I also made a light wheat loaf and slashed a criss cross on top – well the top spread so badly it looked horrible – and I didn’t slash to close to the ends either. So my breads taste great but look terrible! Help. (I usually always refrigerate the dough).
Are you slashing just before it goes into the oven?
Are you slashing deeply (at least a quarter inch)? Whatever the answer, slash deeper and see whether this takes care of the problem.
Are you using a serrated bread knife to slash?
What was different this time? You say that this is a problem “recently.”
I’m slashing just before it goes in the oven and slashing deeply (at least 1/4 inch) and using a serrated bread knife. I guess it’s happening recently because I’ve always just slashed diagonally and not gotten into any patterns. When doing the tic tac pattern the middle square popped up in the center and the rest just spread with no discernable pattern. And as far as the bread exploding out the side – is my dough too cold? When I let it rest longer it’s very jiggly – I usually transfer the loaf onto my stone with parchment and leave the parchment on midbake before removing. I still have some bulging but not as much when I let it rest longer.Thanks for your help. I really take pride in the appearance of the bread and I’ve had some major setbacks in appearance.
I have been enjoying the oatmeal bread but I am having trouble with the loaves cooking all the way through. If I want them cooked through it seems the top is very nearly burnt. If I take it out any sooner it is not done in the middle. The same thing happens with the anadama recipe I adapted. I’m guessing it’s because of the heavy sweeteners used as this does not happen with the other types. Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks.
Hi Jeff and Zoe,
Your book is the best investment in fun and lavish praises by friends and family that I have ever made!
My question pertains to baking big loaves and how to get the timing right so that they are baked all the way through. I have a big family so the smallest loaf that I’ve been baking is about two pounds (double what you show in the book) with the more common size of three to four pounds.
In the middle of January I baked a loaf with a baked weight of 6.1 pounds (that was fun)!
To bake these big loaves I have been cooking them until the outside crust looks done and then putting tin-foil around the bread for the remainder of the baking time (to avoid burning the crust). After I let it bake a little with the foil on I’ll insert a small piece of clean broom straw and simply go by feel to see if there is any dough left inside.
THIS METHOD IS SO LABOR INTENSIVE THOUGH!
If you have any ideas or recommendations on how to get the correct time-to-heat-to-dough weight ratio for the master recipe so I can set all the variables and leave the loaf to bake undisturbed I would be greatly in your debt. Thanks! Nathan
I would sure love to hear from the people who sold at the Farmer’s Market in their area. Would love some tips on how they did it. I mean, did they bake the day of the Farmer’s Market? Did they parbake earlier in the week and then bake the day before? Questions like that. Is there a chat room?
Oh, my hubby flipped over the semolina bread. but it only makes a 12oz. loaf, I weighed it.
Judy, TN
Just a quick question–is it possible ot freeze the dough at any point in the process. My husband and I can’t consume that much bread in a 5 day period!
Barbara: the most reliable I suppose is the simple diagonal slash… About exploding out the side– yes, if the dough’s too cold that can happen, now that you mention it. See what happens with a 60 to 90 minute rest.
Kathy: Have you checked your oven temp with a thermometer? Sounds too hot in there (outside burns before done inside)– that’s my first guess (you could just turn down the heat, maybe lengthen the baking time). Yes, sweeteners are sensitive to exactly this problem. Also could try baking on a lower in the oven.
Nathan: Big loaves are tricky with wet dough– all that moisture has to dissipate or you end up with a soggy loaf. I go by feel and by crust color and find that’s very reliable, but in general, 3 pound loaves take an hour (the one-pounder takes 30 minutes). Check your oven temp with a thermometer and bake on a stone (to carry moisture away from that bottom crust) and you shouldn’t have a problem. I don’t do it, but an instant-read thermometer will read 205 degrees F for a lean dough, and about 180-185 for egg-enriched doughs, when inserted into the center of the loaf. But it has to be a good thermometer; the cheap ones are anything but instant-read.
Judy: Parbaking works; see the book just before the Master Recipe. There’s no chat room but yahoo groups has a group about our book; so does Facebook.
Jessica: Freeze away, for up to a month for lean doughs, and 2 weeks for enriched. Defrost overnight in the fridge and use as usual.
Just bought the book 2 weeks ago and I like it, but I would like to see some improvements in the next edition:
1. More (lots of color) pictures throughout the book of the types of bread; some of us are amateurs and we do not know how the final product looks like.
2. A DVD, where you prepare all the types of bread in the book.
3. Stay away from “meal” recipes, and focus only in bread.
Thanks
Re: caramel coloring from King Arthur Flour. The 2.5 oz. jar is $6.50 plus a minimum of $6.50 shipping depending on the size of your order.
I have tried to ascertain from King Arthur how many tablespoons are in the jar – to no avail. Several guesses from them, range between 4 and 8 tablespoons!
Since you use and recommend it, and hopefully purchase in the 2.5 oz jars, can you give me an approximate number of tablespoons per jar, so that I will know if it is cost effective for me to buy from them, at 1.5 tablespoons per batch of pumpernickel.
King Arthur is the sole retail source in the US, so there is no other choice.
Thanks.
Durum flour is not available at King Arthur, Can I use Bob’s Red Mill for the semolina bread? I read that durum flour is hard to find anywhere.
Thanks.
To Judy from TN-I used this method last summer for our local farmer’s market here in Maine. Our market is on Saturday so I spend Thursday evening making all my dough (I usually make four different types, doubled) and refridgerate. On Friday morning I start baking and just go through all the dough like a production line. I have some in the oven, some resting, some being shaped, etc. I have a very loyal following and people love my product. I have come to the conclusion that many, many people don’t make anything homemade and are delighted to get something that is. I am thinking of baking on Saturday morning to have the bread extra fresh but would have to get up very early and not sure I want to. Even after the market ended for winter I continued to sell bread to some folks who called me with their orders. I also sold to co-workers at my day job.
I have used paper lunch bags but only the smaller loaves fit. I have re-used plastic grocery bags for the market but at home I have cloth bags that I have sewn out of cotton muslin with a draw string top. The bread keeps pretty well in there. Several days before it starts to get hard. I am thinking of making them for sale in the market with my logo on them and selling them fairly cheaply to those that buy bread from me.
Sorry for the long post but I have had so much fun with this method and tell everyone I know about it. Some just look at me like I have two heads. Their loss.
Javier: For our next book, publisher agreed to twice the color and black and white photos. Videos will be available on the web, as for our 1st book (not every recipe), and we’ve dropped the non-bread recipes.
Nina: I’m really sorry, but I can’t guess how many Tbsp are in that jar from KAF. It’s a cylindrical jar with external diameter of 2 1/4 inches and a filled height of 2 1/2 inches. If you have the patience to figure out the volume equivalent for T for this, I give you a lot of credit. Volume of a cylinder, as we all remember, is calculated as:
V = pi * radius squared * height
I sincerely apologize for that formula, but I could not resist. Google will certainly have the volume of a tablespoon.
Arcy: If Bob’s has a product, I’d trust it, even though I haven’t used it myself.
Kathy: Their loss indeed! So glad to hear that some people are figuring out a way to create a little business with this. Agree– a lot of families have gone generation w/o anyone knowing what real bread tastes like. Jeff
Jeff…. OK Mr. Wizard – I’ll give this equation to my husband and see what he comes up with. My math ability is limited to how many pieces of freshly baked bread I can eat before my husband catches me!
P.S. If it was up to me … I would just dump the full jar out, refill it, counting the number of tablespoons and voila – but then what do I know?????
We bake our own bread due to my daughter’s allergies. I’m always looking for new recipes, and fast ones are a bonus as I have a toddler & an infant. What percentage of your recipes are free of dairy (milk, butter, cream,) egg, nuts & sesame?
Thanks.
Katie: About a quarter to a third of our book is made up of enriched breads; that is with butter and/or eggs. But the rest omit the ingredients you list, or seeds can be omitted or substituted. The basic master recipe and its variations are just flour water, yeast, and salt.
Jeff – based on the width and depth of a tablespoon, plus the length of the handle, adding the outside temperature minus 4, and dividing that number by 37 – the number of tablespoons in the King Arthur 2.5 oz. jar of coloring, should be 8.3.
Also _finally_ finding someone at the manufacturers who knew the answer, worked well too. 🙂
I just made my first loaf, and it came out very wrong! I followed all of the instructions exactly. But after baking my bread is still the exact same size it was going in? My dough might have been a little dry… how do I know, and how can I save the other three pounds of it?
Thanks!
Nina: Way to go! But not the math team way to go.
Carla: What’s the bread’s consistency? Is it dense and unpalatable? If not, it’s probably spreading sideways, but still expanding. In which case, may be a technique issue. Have you been through the troubleshooting chapter (chapter 4 in the book)?
Why is it dry? Using bread flour? You can get water to absorb after the fact, but it’s a little tedious. Sounds like that’s what you need to do though.
Which recipe are you using?
I’ve been asked to teach your method to my church women’s group. Hope that’s okay with you! I’m going to tell everyone to go straight out and buy your book, of course.
I’m trying to plan out how to do it timewise. I’ll have a batch of bolle made up and risen, and I was thinking of sort of going backwards and showing how to mold the loaves first, so it can be raising while I go back and show how to stir up the dough. Just trying to think of how to do stuff so there isn’t a lot of dead waiting time. Do you have any suggestions for how to order things? I’ll have an hour or so all together. Thanks so much in advance.
Just a suggestion to Margot-do a practice run at home as if you have the crowd in front of you, take some notes about what works and doesn’t, time wise. Also, like they do on TV-they usually have the recipe at different stages so as not to bore the audience with waiting. I’d like to hear how it goes for Margot after her debut. Hope this helps
I use fresh ground wheat for my bread. Just wondering how this turns out with this method. I just heard about this book last night on a blog, but she had used white flour.
Margot: We get lots of mail from people demonstrating our book, it’s fine. We can’t give permission to copy the book, of course (that would violate copyright). But this sounds great, thank you. When we demo, we have dough pre-mixed as you suggest. But we mix another batch right in front of them, before shaping the pre-risen dough.
As Kathy says, see our videos for how we approach this: https://artisanbreadinfive.com/?page_id=63
Sandra: Whole wheat absorbs much more water than white flour, that’s the difference. I’m assuming your fresh-ground stuff is whole grain. Check out our whole grain recipes in the book, and also https://artisanbreadinfive.com/?p=142
Love the bread! I’m glad I just spotted your correction stating that the formed loaf may need to rest longer, since mine is sometimes a bit too dense. I had some difficulty with the sticky cinnamon rolls this morning. This one does take some time, so I decided to do all the preparation the night before, take the pan out of the fridge in the morning, let it rest for the recommended 1 hour and bake it. It raised too much and pushed out the caramel stuff onto the floor of the oven, sending out plumes of smoke and setting off the smoke alarm. Oh dear! If the rolls have been prepared and refrigerated, should I lessen the rest time to 20 – 30 minutes before baking? Has anyone played with this one?
I’ve been making your Simple Crusty Bread recipe (as printed in the NYT) and all was well with a small round pizza stone. I decided to “upgrade” to a larger rectangular stone because my pizza stone gets some smoke going at times. Now that I have a larger stone, my baking time seems to need adjustment. 30 minutes used to work perfectly, but now 30 minutes leave the bread a little moist. Should I go back to my small round pizza stone, add time to my recipe, or increase the temp from 450 to higher? (475 seems really high!) I’m assuming that my oven just isn’t large enough for this pizza stone though I can’t get my head around the thermodynamics of that.
Nina: Yep, that refrigerator “rise” replaces much of the counter-rise. That’s the way to do it. Fridge rise is detailed at https://artisanbreadinfive.com/?p=141
Micheal: I think your thermodynamics are right on– a small oven is going to put more into the “heat sink” represented by the stone. A longer pre-heat will solve the problem; so might a higher oven temp but you risk over-doing the outside before the “crumb” if fully baked.
Or just go back to the small stone. I like the big one though… traditional books call for a longer pre-heat than we do, so see if 30 minutes does the trick.
Your book is wonderful – I have read all the way through and am now getting ready to try my hand at bread baking using your methods. I have two comments and a question:
1. When you do a reprint how about adding sound spelling to some of the words used in this book?
2. More pictures please! I would gladly pay more for the book just to have more bright colorful pics. of more of the breads. 😀
Now for my question . . .
3. Enriched vs non enriched? For many years the only flour I have used to bake bread is the 100% whole wheat flour I grind myself in my own little mill. When I looked at flour in the grocery recently some said enriched wheat flour. Many of your recipes call for non enriched. I am confused by your use of these terms? Just what do you mean by each term? Where does one find unenriched flour?
Many thanks – my mouth is watering just thinking about baking some of those breads 😀 – Lindy in AZ