Q&A MISC. Bread Questions
Until we can figure out a more sophisticated way to handle your feedback, your praise and your questions, we hope the following series of Q&A posts will help. Our goal is to get a conversation going about a particular topic in one location. Hoping that it will be easier for you to follow and get the information you need to bake gorgeous bread.
If we haven’t started a thread on the subject you are interested in then leave it here and we can create another post!
Thank you so much for all of the conversation. We enjoy it immensely and are learning so much from you all!
Zoë and Jeff
Jeff, thanks so much! I woke up this morning and my eyes popped open. I remembered that I didn’t put the baguette on any cornmeal or flour before putting it on the pan! Now that’s a baker, first thought of the morning is about bread baking! 🙂
I’ll try it again with the rest of the master dough, dusting it with the flour before putting it on the greased pan.
I’ll ask my friend which she would prefer. Thanks for the choices! And thanks for the substitution ideas for honey, which is kind of pricey.
If I can use table salt instead of kosher salt without sacrificing flavor, that cuts down on some cost. I’d rather cut down on the salt cost than the King Arthur flour. It costs $1 more for 5lbs, but I think it tastes better.
Got the book and Ilove it.I am a never ever teaching myself to bake.
My first loaves taste good, but have been a bit dense and misshapen. They don’t rise much and are only a little bigger after baking.The 2nd loaf looked perfect on the peel but came out oblong and uneven on top. The dough took 5 hrs to rise and it about doubled in the container. I am following directions, technique and ingredients for Boule verbatim. 1) I live at altitude (8500ft)do I need to adjust anything in ingredient mix, oven temp, or bake time? I’m getting there, just need the last bit of help. Thanks!
Wow, I have been using the recipe you posted on Mother Earth News while I wait for my copy of the book to arrive (can it be any slower? I should have paid for primo shipping!). Today, on my second trial recipe, I got it right! My boyfriend said it was awesome, my very picky daughter ate several pieces warm out of the oven and even my mother was impressed. I am so happy to be able to make bread that tastes like an expensive loaf of artisan bread- just like the loaves I had in Paris! Can’t wait for the book to arrive. Anyway, just had to stop by and say hello and THANK YOU!!!! You guys ROCK!
First, apologies to the poster whose note I just accidentally deleted (permanently). She’d asked about using a small stone in a toaster oven. I’ve heard that this works well, and I can’t think of any reason it wouldn’t. She’d asked if she should do it at 500 F; I’d use the listed temperatures or I bet they’ll scorch.
Alan: Take a look at our post on high-altitude baking: https://artisanbreadinfive.com/?p=144
Elle: Thanks so much!
Hi!
Thanks a million for the book. I’ve had immediate success and look forward to trying most of your recipes. I agree with Celene on the organization of the NEW and REVISED edition or your new book. I’m at 2100 ft altitude and did not have to change any of the recipe for a successful master recipe.
I have one question to which I have not been able to find an answer: Is there any impact to having more than one loaf in the oven? Should I add more water for the steaming phase?
Thanks again for all your hard work which is making it easier for all of us.
Kathryn
Kathryn: For a couple of small loaves, I can’t tell any difference. For many loaves, or very large loaves, you need to increase the baking time. But the steam requirement doesn’t change.
And as always, check your oven temperature with an inexpensive oven thermometer.
Hi Jeff and Zoe: two things: 1) Re – the toaster oven. They make a stone that fits it perfectly. However, in mine, there is no room to put something to catch the water for steam. I tried one pita and it came out raw after 10 minutes! So, I decided to use the oven thermometer in the toaster oven and – after 20 minutes set at 350 degrees, it only registered 250. I suggest that anyone using a toaster oven use a thermometer to test it. Mine is old and if/when it needs replacing I plan to go for one a bit larger. That might help. The place we are moving to has an electric oven and we try to conserve energy. It would be more efficient to bake a loaf or a pita in the smaller oven.
2)Re- South Beach diet: the 100% WW bread fits once one reaches level 3. The lite WW does not have the necessary fiber. I have used the 100% recipe for pizza dough without a problem. I haven’t tried a pita with it yet because I haven’t quite got the liter one to work yet. But, I love the book and the website!
Regards,
Hi again – I was looking for ways to doctor up the ww boule and starting reading the raisin walnut oatmeal bread on p98. The paragraph at the top says that it will remind you of breakfast – raisins, walnuts, and a hint of maple syrup. However, there is no syrup in the recipe or in my error printout. Should there be maple syrup. Also, should the walnuts be chopped?
My dough turned dark grey on top after mixing a double batch and leaving it in the refrigerator for a few days. The dough on the bottom was still normal colored, but I was afraid to use any of it. I ended up tossing it out and mixing a new, smaller batch. Would it have been OK to use? Just wondering in case it happens again.
Thanks
Hi Suzan,
You are exactly right about using an oven thermometer when you bake. It is so important to know how hot your oven actually is.
The pita is generally baked at about 500°F, so if you are baking at a much lower temperature it will take longer to bake and may never puff up. It will still be delicious!
The maple syrup is in the Oatmeal bread dough on page 94. That is where the reference comes from.
Thanks so much and enjoy all the bread!
Zoë
Thanks – I bet my toaster oven doesn’t heat that hot. I will try baking the pita longer and see what happens.
Re the syrup. Oops, I didn’t go that far back to the original boule. However, I did do the walnut-raisin oat bread instructions today using the lite ww boule and it is the best loaf that I’ve made to date! No maple syrup but syrup isn’t on South Beach anyway. I think the raisins gave it a touch of sweetness and a lot of flavor. I chopped up the walnuts.
Regards…
Hi Bernice,
What you experienced is totally normal and not at all harmful. Next time you can just pour off the liquid and proceed.
It is just part of the natural waste product of the yeast and it actually acts as a preservative for your dough. Was there an alcohol smell that went with it? That too is normal.
To prevent this, you may want to make sure that your bucket lid is not too well sealed. This way the gases from the yeast can escape and not collect in the bucket.
It often will happen with dough that is older than a week. Some people love this fermentation and will mix it right into their next batch of dough!
Enjoy! Zoë
Hi Suzan,
Stay in touch and I’m so glad you enjoyed the raisin and nut loaf! Sounds wonderful!
Zoë
I got your master recipe from Mother Earth News and know absolutely nothing about baking, but decided to give it a try anyways, seeing as how much we love bread. Anyways, I guess it is possible to use the wrong kind of yeast (it just said “small granulated yeast” on the bulk bin at the co-op) because our bread did not rise AT ALL. So… before I throw it out and start Take 2 with yeast from a can, is there anything I can make with my apparently yeastless bread dough?
Hi Diana,
This is one case where I would test the yeast before using anymore of the bulk batch that you got at the co-op. The only thing that will really kill the yeast is if you add water that is too hot. you can try adding the yeast to your warm water and let it sit for a few minutes. If it isn’t bubbling within 5 minutes it is no good. The problem with buying bulk yeast is there is no expiration and no real way to know how long it has been in the bin.
What you can do with your old batch is add it to a new batch. This will give you LOTS of dough, but at least you won’t throw away the ingredients. If you do this, you will want to double the yeast to compensate for the other dough. If you have a large mixer or a hand blender it will go together more easily.
https://artisanbreadinfive.com/?p=392
Enjoy! Zoë
First I have to say that I love your book. I got it from my local library but will be buying my own copy as soon as I can get to the bookstore.
I am having a problem with my dough. When I bake it, it doesn’t rise at all. The outside is very good and crusty but the inside is very dense and also salty (??? even though I don’t add salt). The bread I have made is definitely edible but I would like to figure out what is going wrong!!
i just bought your book, love it, and could fill a page with its praises…but i’m on a mission! like some others who posted here, i was interested in the granary-style bread and stymied by the unavailability of malted wheat flakes. I know that brewers use a malted wheat when making wheat beer. in the few pictures i could find on the web, it looks like a whole grain, definitely not a flake.
has anybody tried using this instead of the flakes? maybe parboiling them first or softening them somehow?
Hi Joanne,
Your idea sounds very interesting. I have not tried it, but am very curious to see how your results are.
Rumor has it that King Arthur will start to sell the malted wheat flakes again in the fall of 2009. I keep my fingers crossed!
Thanks, Zoë
Hi Elizabeth,
So glad you are enjoying the bread!
Are you using any salt at all? If not, I can’t begin to imagine how your bread is tasting too salty??? It is a mystery indeed.
Do you mean you are not adding extra salt? If you are using salt, is it kosher? Regular table salt will be much too salty.
Here is a post about bread with a dense crumb. Let me know if this helps: https://artisanbreadinfive.com/?p=141
Thanks, Zoë
Hi Zoe,
Just wanted to report back that mixing a new batch with the old and compensating for the yeast worked perfect– my first loaf (ever!) was so good that Hubby says I better buy the book. Thanks again.
Having much success with the recipes and techniques, but I just made the challah for the first time and it’s been sitting for 2 hours without any rising at all! I’m worried about leaving something with raw eggs out for too long, so I think I ought to put it in the fridge. Does this dough behave differently from the other recipes, which so far have all bubbled up nicely within 2 hours?
Thanks.
Wow Diana, that was quick!
So glad it worked out for you. Congrats on your very first loaf of bread!
Cheers, Zoë
Hi Cathrin,
Is there a chance that the water you used was hot enough to have killed the yeast? Or, could the yeast have been past its expiration date. This dough usually does rise just as the others do.
One other thought is that you used cold water and then it will take much longer for the yeast to snap into action. I’d just refrigerate it and see what it does in the morning.
Let me know what it looks like in the morning!
Thanks, Zoë
First of all, I adore your book and the bread! I am German, living a long time abroad and always looking for proper bread. Tried a lot of recipes, had a lot of frustration – mostly about the time consuming preparations. Your idea is just marvelous and the bread (european pheasant bread) just the right thing I was looking for! What a great taste, specialy when I have the patience to let it rest a week before baking! No need to bother with sourdough!!
But I have one problem! The dough is always to wet. Always! Even if I reduce the water or use more flour.
I shape the bread in some seconds, let it “rise” – it flattens down immediately, I tried the Epi-style wrath, it tasted great, but I got flat pieces.
I mostly use the european rye bread recipe or the whole wheat recipe. How should the density of the dough look like, immedeately after mixing? I use a handmixer to mix the dough, just as long as the dough mixes well. (about 5 min.) When I compare your pictures, my dough looks alike yours. The 2 hours rising time are ok and it rises about double size. But after a week resting, it builds a lot of excess water above the dough, sometimes I even pour it out.
What am I doing wrong?
High Altitude Subject
Thanks for writing book!
I live at 8000 feet in very dry climate. I’ve confused myself by reading so many suggestions on what to do to make dough not fall–increase liquid, increase oven temperature +25 degrees, decrease salt, etc. Can you help?
Hi Maria
I noticed at the end of your note that you are using a hand mixer for your dough. This makes me think that your dough may be too wet. A hand mixer, as far as I know would not have the strength to mix our dough. If I am wrong, please tell me what brand you are using!
What kind of all-purpose flour are you using? Are you using the scoop and sweep method to measure. It is very important that you don’t spoon the flour into the cup or it won’t be enough flour.
The liquid on the dough is natural and just a byproduct of the fermentation. It acts as a natural preservative. You can just pour it off as you did.
Let me know if this helps!
Thanks, Zoë
Hi Rebecca,
Did you see this post about high altitude baking? Let me know if that clears anything up for you.
https://artisanbreadinfive.com/?p=144
Thanks, Zoë
Maria: One other thing– the flours you’re getting may be lower in protein (softer) than what we tested with in the US, which has around 10% protein. On the nutritional label, our stuff says there are 3 grams of protein in a 30 gram serving. And, it’s unbleached.
Is that similar to what you’re using? If there’s less protein, or it’s bleached, it will be too wet with our measured ratio of water to flour and you have to alter it.
Re: my challah dough
Thanks so much for your ideas. I always measure the temperature of the water to be sure it doesn’t kill the yeast; it was 90′. I just bought the yeast, but it was a different brand – SAF. I wasn’t sure how much to put in. The recipe says “1.5 Tbsp” or “1.5 packes”, but the packets didn’t have anywhere near that much yeast in them, so I put in two full packets.
In any case, the dough developed in the fridge overnight and has bubbled up quite a bit – hasn’t flattened out on top yet, but I have hope!
I’m having so much fun with the book – thanks for bringing science and a new spirit of adventure to breadmaking!
Hi Cathrin,
That is fantastic. SAF is a wonderful yeast, but may be a tad slower to react than instant or other granulated yeasts. You will have wonderful bread!
Thanks, Zoë
Hi Zoe and Jeff,
I am trying to introduce my former boss to this kind of baking. I sent her the recipe from Splendid Table to try first. I went by her office today, bringing a loaf to share with my former coworkers.
Seems we both had a problem with the master dough loaf I brought in, and the batch she made. She didn’t use a stone, but I did. Both of us had nice loaves, except for the bottom. It wasn’t crisp. You had a tough time cutting thru the bottom.
I don’t know how she mixed her dough. But I did make a change in my batch of dough. I added the water recommended when using King Arthur all purpose flour. But I added 1/4cup water after that. I had made a batch of challah dough recently that was too dry, and I guess I was afraid that my dough might not be wet enough. When I added the extra water, the dough was really “gloppy.”
I took my loaf out of the oven when a thermometer measured 190degrees, which is done.
Was it my adding the extra 1/4cup water that caused this? I noticed that I didn’t get the nice slash marks showing in the done loaf. Maybe I added too much water?
I hope you can help us. I’d like to get more people started on baking this way. I would like her to buy your book and bake more. I don’t want people to get discouraged.
Thanks so much,
Judy
Hi Judy,
So glad your friend is trying the bread.
Yes, I think you answered the question, too much water added. Try it with the amount we recommend and see if that helps!
Happy Baking, Zoë
Thanks, Zoe,
I’m like a walking commercial for your book! I might do a demo at a Pampered Chef party, also!
Question on the dough bucket. it’s great that we can use the remnants of the last batch and don’t have to wash it. But how long can we do that? I mean, you say the dough is only good for 2 weeks. Does that apply to the remaining crumbs? Do we have to wash the dough bucket every 2 weeks (or whatever the recipe says).
Thanks. I want to make sure I have my facts when I talk to people and tell them how easy this is.
Judy
Hi Zoe and Jeff,
thanks for the fast response!Well, my flour is 10% protein, says 5,0g per 50g. About unbleached I am not sure,it says nothing at the lable. The handmixer I am using has dough hooks, just right to mix the bread dough, as I used it always for my bread dough. (German brand mixer) Just made a new batch and did today with the scoop and sweep method, I think this may do the trick. I always poured the flour into the cups. Let you know, if it worked out! At least today the dough looked a little less wet. Is it possible, that the climate may change the humidity of the flour? We have a real wet and hot summer this year (here in Brazil)!
Oh, wanted to tell you that the 100% whole wheat bread recipe makes FABULOUS rolls. instead of making a loaf, I made 4 small rolls. They are so pretty with the X on them! Just enough for a roll for my salad, without having to cut into a loaf.
Surprisingly, it takes just as long to bake the rolls as a loaf, because the first part is the steam.
I was thinking of cutting the honey down some and substituting water. Instead of 1/2cup honey, how about 1/3Cup? I don’t want to lose the sweetness and texture, though.
THANKS. My friends all went nuts for the rolls!
Judy
Judy: For doughs without eggs or dairy, I don’t wash it– you can exceed the limit of the batch storage. Obviously discard if there’s mold (doesn’t seem to happen). If egg or dairy, it’s the storage recommendation for the batch, wash at that point.
Sure you can decrease the honey.
Maria: Glad we got to the bottom of that! And yes, humid Brazilian weather can affect moisture absorption in flour.
Well, here I am, the happy baker! Just mixed my first batch of pain d’epi, and it’s rising on the counter.
Is that supposed to be a really thick dough? I’m guessing it is, because of the bread flour. I used 36oz of KA bread flour–5.5oz bread flour per cup by scoop and sweep X 6.5 cups. I didn’t know how much water to add, so I did as in the master recipe adjustment–1/4cup.
Is this the way it should be? I do want to make baguettes with this batch.
Thanks,
Judy
Hi Judy,
Yes, this sounds just right. it is a tighter dough so it will shape into a nice clean baguette!
Enjoy, Zoë
does your book contain any whole grain bread receipes?
am looking for minimum of 3 grams of fiber per slice…more would be better.
thank you!
I’ve had so much success with your method that I purchased a new oven as the old one had uneven heat but the one thing I can’t sem to find anywhere here or in your book is a discussion of fan forced ovens. Are your temperature guides for fan-forced or non fan forced ovens and what kind of oven setting do you recommend? I now have a multitude of settings.
Hi Andrew,
You can absolutely use your brand new convection oven with our dough. Here is a post about using convection heat: https://artisanbreadinfive.com/?p=67
Enjoy the new oven and all the bread! Zoë
Judy: Definitely we have whole grains; the 100% WW bread would meet your 3 grams I believe. Next book will have many more of this type.
Hi, I am loving your book and have been using the olive oil dough to make calzones. My family prefers a glossier finish, like ones they are accustomed to from restaurants. Can I brush the dough with an egg wash or butter prior to or during the baking? If so, when should I do this? Thanks.
Egg wash and butter have different effects.
Egg wash definitely browns up the crust, but at temps higher than 350, they will over-darken if they go for more than about 10 to 20 minutes or so. Can brush on when partly baked.
Egg whites— glossier and less yellow than whole egg, but same burning problem unless you can bake quickly as for rolls. See my post on this https://artisanbreadinfive.com/?p=536
Butter won’t neccesarily brown, but it definitely softens that top crust.
The most effective way to get a glossy crust is to use cornstarch wash– it’s in the book.
The recipe for whole wheat bread calls for 1.5 cups of milk. I use non-fat and 1%, would either of this be acceptable or would milk with more fat be better?
Also, I have used the cornstarch wash on about 12 loaves of pumpernickel and have yet to achieve a shiny crust. It really doesn’t matter because it has a good crust and the bread is fantastic, but I was just curious as to why not.
I didn’t mean that I had made the whole wheat bread with non-fat or 1% milk – I meant that that is the only milk that I always have in my house as that.
I haven’t made the whole wheat yet and wanted to know before I make it.
Hi Nina,
I too make that bread with 1% and it is just fine. Having said that, it also is fine to use whole milk. It really doesn’t matter!
There is a school of thought out there in the baking world that says you need to brush the cornstarch wash on the loaf both when going into the oven and when coming out to get a shine. Just a very light brushing as it comes out may do the trick!
Let me know how that goes.
Zoë
1. I only use metric weight in recipes, so how much flour, in grams or kilograms, does each of your recipes require.
2. I am in Canada and use Robin Hood or Five Roses flours, as those are what are readily available. How do I adjust for those flours from the U.S. flours you use?
FYI, I use 52 grams for one large egg here in Canada [50 grams in the U.S.]. The yolk is 1/3rd of that, the white is 2/3rd of that. I put the bowl on my kitchen scale’s platform, and turn it on to tare it to zero, using grams, and just add ingredients by gram weight to the amount of that ingredient, then add the next ingredient, etc., until I have all the ingredients in the bowl. No measuring cups, no measuring spoons, etc. Quick, neat and clean up is easy… but that means I need the recipes in grams per ingredient, and need all of the liquids showing their standard weights as used by you. I do not see that in the recipes. Am I missing something, or is it simply not there.
A daughter in Costa Rica can only get bleached white flour and we are trying to help her adjust the ratio of flour to water. We are all long time bread makers but testing this much wetter bread takes some work. I have sent her your book but if you have any ideas let us know. We are all FANS.Thanks, arcy