Q&A MISC. Bread Questions
Until we can figure out a more sophisticated way to handle your feedback, your praise and your questions, we hope the following series of Q&A posts will help. Our goal is to get a conversation going about a particular topic in one location. Hoping that it will be easier for you to follow and get the information you need to bake gorgeous bread.
If we haven’t started a thread on the subject you are interested in then leave it here and we can create another post!
Thank you so much for all of the conversation. We enjoy it immensely and are learning so much from you all!
Zoë and Jeff
i just baked a deli rye dough that had been frozen for a month. I let it rest/rise for 1 hour and 40 minutes in a loaf. It spread out to the edges, but didn’t seem to rise very much.
After baking, it still did rise in the oven and the slices are the size of biscotti.
I have been rising all of my doughs for an hour and 40 minutes and now I am wondering if that is too long. My breads are good, especially the pumpernickel, but none of them seem to rise very much.
How can I tell when the dough has reached it maximum rising point and should then be put in the oven???
Me again… I just measured the finished rye – 1.25″ high X 7.25 long!
The only problem that I had was that it was even sticker (wet) than my other doughs – after it thawed out in the fridge.
I had to use a lot more flour to handle it and keep it from sticking even more than usual to my hands and the package. Could the extra flour, maybe two or three times more than what I would normally use, have anything to do with the very small rise?
Bob: a cup of unbleached AP, measured with scoop+sweep weighs about 140 grams. In general, we haven’t tested with gram equivalents for this book, so you’re going to have to do some experimentation. Unfortunately I’m not familiar with those flours, but if they’re unbleached, and about 10% protein, you should be fine. More on that at https://artisanbreadinfive.com/?p=140.
Arcy: If you have bleached flour, use less water… still may not have proper body, but worth a try.
Nina: These are too flat… try using a little more flour, for whatever reason. Basically, the opposite of what you’re suggesting!
Thanks Jeff – yes the rye was way too flat, I measured it against yesterday’s pumpernickel and it was half the height. The pumpernickel was over twice the height, but I still don’t consider that very high. All of my loaves, white included never seem to rise much.
So, you are suggesting that I use more flour in my recipe? I weigh not measure the flour – 2 lbs. per batch.
I have two brand new batches sitting in my fridge from Saturday – deli rye and pumpernickel – Is there anything I can do now to make them rise more – or wait until I make another batch.
As I said, that has been my problem from the very first loaf. Do you think that a shorter resting time might help and then maybe there will be a rise burst in the oven?
I’m confused – did mean more flour when shaping the loaf or more in the recipe?
First, we love your book. We have a family member controlling his diabetes with a low carb diet. I’ve tried to read all the posts to figure if you’ve already answered this question, so forgive me if I’ve missed it. I did see that you are working on a new book and that you are working toward a gluten-free recipe.
We would be looking for a fiber rich, higher protein, higher gluten recipe, any plans for that?
Typically lower carb breads contain oat flour, rye flour, soy flour, flax seeds, VWG, and other types of non-white flours. Could you suggest an alteration to the existing recipe that we could try?
Thank you!
I’m interested in adding flax seed meal to the dough mixes for a nutritional kick. Do you think this is possible, and if so, would you have a suggestion on how much to add or substitute for a given batch size?
Loving the book! I never thought I’d make bread at home, let alone so easily. We are spoiled for fresh loaves all the time now!
Hi Nina,
I think Jeff meant when you are handling the dough after it thaws.
How big are the loaves that you are baking? If they are small, then 1 hour 40 minutes may be too long and your dough may be over proofed.
My other question is what kind of rye flour are you using?
Zoë
Hi Kiki,
Yes, we have breads in the next book that will fit the bill. That is the good news and it comes out this fall!
Thank you! Zoë
Hi Jillian,
So glad you are baking and enjoying the breads!
We’ve got several breads in our new book that use flax seed meal. It is a wonderful addition to the dough.
The new book will be out this fall!
Thanks, Zoë
Hi Zoe,
I have been making one pound loaves. This batch I make three from the fridge and this one from the freezer.
The rye, as well as all of my other flours are from a co-op. It is a large well stocked store (Rainbow Grocery in San Francisco). Some of the bins tell the guten content and some, such as the rye – just say ‘rye’ no further info.
They have a ‘pumpernickel’ rye flour, but I have used that.
I made a new batch of rye dough two days ago and today made a loaf. I used 1.5 pounds, in a one pound loaf pan, let it rest for an hour and it seemed to be fine.
For subsequent loaves, I will let it rest for an hour or less and use much more flour when forming the loaf.
Do you think that the fact that it was frozen and then thawed in the fridge overnight, might have had anything do do with the exceptionally wet and sticky dough? Although, my dough always tends to stick to my hands and I have wondered why it doesn’t stick to your when I have watched your various videos?
I am thinking of switching to King Arthur A.P. and or bread flour when I purchase flour in a few days.
What exactly is the difference (in your recipes) between using A.P. or bread flour?
When I first got my book, I think I misunderstood the part about increasing the resting time from a straight 40 minutes to 40 – 1 hour and a half. I have been resting my dough for 1 hr. and 40 minutes (my error) all along.
I am going to start resting them for a shorter period until the dough is wobbily.
Hopefully this is the root of my non-rising bread.
Also, I have been spraying my loaf pan with PAM and maybe that makes it too slippery, not allowing the dough to ‘climb’ up the sides of the pan. I will go back to using a small amount of oil and some flour – shaking out the excess. I like the loaf pans because the bread is more uniform and can be used for sandwiches.
Nina: Freezing shouldn’t chance the moisture content. My guess is that we’re just using more dusting flour in the videos to keep it from sticking to hands. But if you’re really struggling, it won’t harm anything if you increase the flour slightly to get a slightly drier result. Bread flour absorbs more water than AP, and results in a drier dough. See our post on this: https://artisanbreadinfive.com/?p=140. You might prefer the switch, but you may need to adjust the water (upwards).
See what you think about the shorter rise. Frankly though, for large loaves, or for whole grains, the longer rest is a nicer result. Maybe a middle ground would be good. 1 hour?
But breads made in loaf pans are generally big and the longer rest time is often nice. See what you think when you go shorter.
Thanks Jeff, we thought that maybe you used more flour in the videos for visual effect.
Before I started using the loaf pan, my dough alway spread out so much when resting that I had maybe three or four descent slices from the middle, and the rest, both ends, were much much smaller pieces – sometimes like biscotti.
The next loaves from my already prepared doughs, will definitely be shorter resting time and more flour.
Of all the brands available nationally, is King Arthur your flour of choice? It is in all of my local markets, so that is no problem.
Aside from the water, is there any difference in taste, etc.. between bread flour and A.P.
When I got my book, I printed out the flour/water/weight post that you refer to above. However as a beginner, it didn’t mean much to me ….. read that as I didn’t really understand what it meant. Now I will read it in a different light.
Nina: When I test for the book, I use Gold Medal Unbleached All-Purpose, because it’s similar to most other nationally-available brands. I don’t typically use KAF unbleached AP, because it’s higher in protein and therefore, I think, less representative of what our readers will get for baking results. But KAF’s 11.7% (vs GMs 10%) might be nice for you, if you’re tending to get doughs that are too wet and spread sideways.
Bread flour makes loaves that are chewier and have more body than those made with AP. But with wet dough, I find the difference to be fairly small.
Love your book!! Posted a question but don’t know where I posted it. Here is is again. I want to make the spinach feta bread – can I omit the sugar?
Hi Amy,
Yes, you can omit the sugar with no ill effect to the bread.
Enjoy! Zoë
Thanks Jeff, I’ll try the Gold Medal AP first and if that doesn’t give me better results, I’ll try the KA.
Fortunately flour is inexpensive and easy to get, the only penalty for these hits and misses – is what ends up on my hips!
I just want to tell you how amazing your book is. I’ve been baking bread in a breadmaker for years but I’ve been looking for something better. Your book is just fun. So far I’ve only done the Master Recipe – but I’ve done it as a loaf, a baguette and the traditional rustic round. I can’t wait to try more. Thank you for coming up with the concept and sharing it with all of us. I keep spreading the word to my friends now too.
hi – king arthur flour is out of malted wheat flakes. i heard a cereal called maltex is the same thing. is it? is there another good place to find malted wheat flakes?
also, i wanted to order some malt power as you suggest, but do you mean diastatic or non-diastatic malt powder?
thanks!
Hi, Easter is around the corner. Would you happen to have a recipe for HOT CROSS BUNS using the stored dough?
thanks!
Hi Jennifer, Thank you so much for the great note. We are so glad that you are having fun baking bread! It tastes better when you have fun!
Hi Donna, there is rumor that KA is going to start carrying the malted wheat flakes again this fall!? If they do we will be sure to announce it here!
I’ve never tried using the maltex?
Order the non-diastic for this purpose.
Thanks, Zoë
Annabel: Many people have done Hot Cross Buns using one of our enriched doughs (page 180 or page 189). Roll out the dough and sprinkle with dried currants, raisins, allspice, cinnamon, lemon zest, and orange zest. Then roll it up, divide into rolls, and follow the directions at https://www.epicurious.com/recipes/food/views/Hot-Cross-Buns-101452
I have been using Bulk Yeast (Fleischmann’s Instant Dry Yeast) and been having a few problems. How much should I use? The conversions only list use 1/3 oz of instant dry for 1 oz of fresh yeast. My bread seems to taste a bit off if I use the full amount called for in your recipes. Also, I get great rise in the first loaf, especially if unrefrigerated, but in subsequent loaves I am getting very little rise. I have tried the overnight in the fridge, up to 3-4 hours on the counter, etc. Nothing makes a difference. The first loaf is soft and wonderful. The rest are dense and still soggy with a hard crust. Help!
Megan: Some people have found that there’s too much commercial yeast flavor in our basic recipes. You can decrease the yeast to your taste, the only thing that changes is the interval you need to wait before the batch goes into the fridge. See https://artisanbreadinfive.com/?p=85. But we’ve found no difference between bulk or individual packages of Fleishmans versus Red Star– all the granulated yeasts perform the same in our method, whether or not labelled instant, regular, or “for bread machines.” Same measurements.
Our loaves “evolve” over the life of the batch. They do get denser later. But I’m wondering if you’re not over-handling the loaves as you form them, knocking out precious gas that must be conserved with our method. As an experiment, try to form your next loaf in 10 seconds, and just accept whatever shape comes out. See if it’s not airier.
And be sure you’re not “punching down.” That’s the kiss of death in our method. Do everything you can to conserve gas.
I’ve never been much of a cook, but I am LOVING your cookbook and am amazed that I can actually bake bread that turns out so well!! So, thanks for that!
My question is, I live by myself and even when I make relatively small loaves (so far I’ve only used the basic recipe) I still end up wasting a fair amount of bread before it gets stale. Any suggestions on making something in very small amounts so that one person could eat it in a day or so?
Thanks!
Is there and Irish Soda Bread verion of the bread? After all St. Patty’s Day is around the corner?
First of all, Great Book, Great Idea!!!
I have a suggestion and a question.
First the Suggestion: This style Q&A seems like it might create more work for you guys. Perhaps a traditional “forum” that has cartgories might answer some questions that have been answered numerous time individually. Just a suggestion.
Ok, now my questions. I made the “Master Recipe”, it rises a lot on the initial rise (more than double) but when I take what seems to be a grapefruit size piece: A it causes the rest of the dough to fall quite a bit. and B the resulting loaf isn’t much bigger than a grapefruit maybe 1 1/2 times. The crumb is dense. I have put a lot of flour on the peel and it rises in the oven, but doesn’t spread much. Any Ideas?
Hi Jeff and Zoe,
I decided to try making a feta cheese pizza tonight. Instead of making whole wheat pizza crust in the bread machine, I decided to try using your light whole wheat dough as a dough for the crust.
We just ate the pizza!!! Fabulous! I used spinach with the feta cheese, 2 cloves of garlic, and some shallot onion. It was almost a paste. I put it on top of partially baked pizza crusts that were drizzled with oil (I wasn’t sure if I had to bake the crust first). Maybe a bit too much oil. I pricked the crusts so they wouldn’t rise too much. I topped the topping with parmesan cheese, slices of black olives and red bell pepper.
My hubby said, “this is some kind of trendy yuppie pizza!” It was a real 10, and a great way to enjoy our feta!!!
Couldn’t find any pizza suggestions in the index at the back, so I thought I’d make this suggestion.
Judy, TN
Shaney: You can make as small a loaf as you can use in a day. Baking time is shorter– experiment a bit. Everything else is the same. See all the recipes in the book for bagels, rolls, and bialy. You can make just one.
Heater: Irish Soda Bread isn’t risen with yeast, so we don’t have one in our book (all our stuff is yeast-risen). James Beard in “Beard on Bread” has a great recipe that can’t miss. Bet you can Google it.
Chris: We’re hard at work, comeing up with a better way to handle questions– must get more efficient.
About your rise— try a longer rest time. Like 60 to 90 minutes rather than 40, and my guess is that you’ll be happier with the result. Our method was a compromise between speed and perfection— you can get a little closer to perfection if you’re willing to use a little more “passive” time. Active time is still 5 min/day.
Judy: Sounds like a great pizza… just about anything works on these, so keep experimenting.
Jeff, thank you so much for the fast response. Can I ask another question I forgot to mention. I tried the steam and my crust is getting nice and golden, but it is more chewy. Is there a trick to making a real crunchy, hearty, rustic crust?
Are you using a baking stone? Some ovens don’t trap steam well and you can use the alternatives we’ve been talking about on the web: Baking in a Dutch Oven: https://artisanbreadinfive.com/?p=552
Aluminum Roasting Pan for Crust: https://artisanbreadinfive.com/?p=510
I’ve noticed in viewing your website that you suggest “resting” the dough for much longer times than the book suggest. Is there an easy way to tell when the dough has rested enough?
Thank you so much for the book…we love it. Since we bought it, we’ve rarely purchased a loaf, and I’m a church pastor who is now baking the bread that we use for communion in our congregation!
And so, a “churchy” question: In time for Easter…has anyone attempted turning out some sort of hot cross buns using these recipes? Any suggestions for where to start?
Hi Dave,
When you take the dough out of the bucket after it has been refrigerated it will be very cold and dense. As it rests it will warm up a bit and no longer feel as tight/dense when you touch it. Depending on how cold your refrigerator is and the temp of your kitchen this can take anywhere between 40-90 minutes.
If you throw the dough into the oven when it is still very cold and dense your interior crumb won’t be as open.
Thanks, hope that helps!
Zoë
Erica: About hot cross buns, see Zoe’s post above, on 3/4. Thanks for all the kind words!
Hi Jeff and Zoe,
I just joined Facebook, and uploaded some pictures of what I have baked. Then I got to wondering how you feel about general public being able to see you Facebook pages. I didn’t do a friend invite for that reason. Thanks, Judy
I’m thinking about making the oatmeal raisin bread as a loaf but not in a pan. Mixing the raisins and pecans(I’m using these instead). Is there any problem with this?
Hi Judy,
That is really exciting! I can’t wait to see what you have been baking! Please do invite us onto your FB page! 🙂
Zoë
Hi Barbara,
No, I do this all the time and love it!
Enjoy! Zoë
Hi Zoe,
Thanks so much. Hope you enjoy my pix.
I joined Facebook last week and WOW, it’s a wild ride. I forgot all about my batches of dough! I have the remainder of a batch of pain d epi that I thinned down about a week ago. It was really too thick. You’ll see the picture of the baguettes on Facebook, but it was too tough to work with and chew. I added some dough to warm water and worked it in. It was fine for one loaf I made so far. It smells doughy strong, but not spoiled. It should have been used by Friday, 3/19
The other batch is of the light whole wheat bread. Smells fine. Would like to make rolls for a friend. Should have been used by 3/20.
Well, what is the verdict? Should I try using or freezing the dough?
Thanks so much,
Judy, in TN
Could you point me in the right direction for gluten-free posts and comments on your blog?
I apologize now for being a rather lazy sod and not reading each and every post and comment (but on a bread blog that is likely to be less than .5% gluten-free content I am mostly trying to reduce the frustration factor).
Judy: I freeze dough anytime up to the point where it isn’t supposed to be refrigerated, but the earlier you freeze, the better the rise when defrosted.
Mare: There really aren’t any posts on gluten-free, because our first book has no gluten-free recipes. Our second book, out in October, has a whole chapter devoted to the subject. Stay tuned!
Thanks Jeff – I promise I will!
So are you saying I should toss the dough because it’s just after the “use by date?” Are you saying it won’t rise well? It’s been tightly covered since the 3rd day. Thanks~
Judy: Many of our testers found that the results were too dense when used later than the 2 week cutoff date. If you don’t find it so, you can push that. And you can always use old over-dense stuff as “old dough” in a new batch. Keep it to less than about a quarter of the new dough and you’ll be fine– mix it in with the water, breaking it up as best you can.
Thanks, that’s a great idea!
hi zoe – you mentioned that king arthur may begin to carry malted wheat flakes in the fall, but what kind of substitution could i use until then?