Q&A MISC. Bread Questions
Until we can figure out a more sophisticated way to handle your feedback, your praise and your questions, we hope the following series of Q&A posts will help. Our goal is to get a conversation going about a particular topic in one location. Hoping that it will be easier for you to follow and get the information you need to bake gorgeous bread.
If we haven’t started a thread on the subject you are interested in then leave it here and we can create another post!
Thank you so much for all of the conversation. We enjoy it immensely and are learning so much from you all!
Zoë and Jeff
I need to avoid enriched white flours. What kinds/brands of flours can I use with your book?
Thanks for the quick response Jeff, I will try that tonight. Can I mix in the good unbleached flour?
If anything my mistake is a testament to how easy your technique is – I was working from memory not the book when I was pulling ingredients….unfortunately the memory just wasn’t working that well.
First, a huge thanks to you for providing such great customer service to your readers. You’re really going above and beyond!
Second, a big question circulating the web: could this method work for gluten-free breads? Any thoughts on getting started?
Michelle
I was at Kim Ode’s Cook Book Club at B & N where I was pleasantly surprised to meet Jeff and have him autograph a copy of your book. I tried making a Boule and while the crust was crusty, the inside was much more dry and dense than the olive bread which we were able to sample that night. How can I make my bread more wet and kind of chewy next time? I want to persevere and get it right.
You’ve given me hope with your book and a taste of the possibilities.
hi Jeff and Zoe
love your book, ordered it after reading about it in a dutch newspaper and started baking right away. My boys love the freshly baked loafs, together we eat 2 750 gr. loafs a day! We particularly like whole wheat bread.
I have a couple of questions though, concerning the richness of these breads.
I noticed that in most whole wheat breadrecipes honey is used. What exactly does the honey do in the recipe, other than add taste? Can I simply leave the honey out, I’d rather not use sweeteners in bread?
And about the butter, can I substitute it with vegetable oil? And how much?
I appreciate your feedback,
Annette
Hi Michelle,
Thank you for your feedback! We are having a blast and learning so much from all of you.
You can use this method for Gluten free breads and in fact we are working on several recipes right now. The good news is that we will have an entire chapter dedicated to it in the next book. The only thing is that it will take a while before that book is ready.
Please let us know if you have any recipe requests!
Thanks, Zoë
Hi Alison,
If you were at Kim Ode’s Cook Book Club, I’m suspecting you are a bread baker and probably not using a low protein flour? If you use a flour with more than 10% protein you will need to increase the water. Check out the post we did on flour/water.
https://artisanbreadinfive.com/?p=140
If the dough is too dry it will cause the bread to have a dry, dense crumb and the dough won’t store as well.
Let me know if this sounds like the issue. If not, we’ll think of something else.
Thanks for trying the recipes and enjoy!
Zoë
Hi Annette,
How wonderful that you are making the bread and enjoying it. I’m so glad that you saw that article, we were very excited to do it!
We add honey and butter to the Whole Wheat breads to tenderize them so they won’t be too dry.
You can take out the honey and replace the butter with oil (in equal measure). If you have ever used vital wheat gluten I would try adding 1 teaspoon for every cup of whole wheat flour. This will give your bread more rise and a better crumb.
Continue to enjoy the bread!
Zoë
Do you have any tips for baking in a dutch oven? What size pan,oiled? lid on or off? I learned about your book from the Angry Chicken blog. I think she used a dutch oven. I thought the book would tell me…
Jeff and Zoe,
Because you mentioned recipe requests for a future book. What about stollen? And this might be a weird one, but Asian breads such as Japanese “melon bread”/Chinese “pineapple bread,” which are unusual pastries consisting of a sweet bread dough wrapped by a crispy cookie layer.
Dan
P.S. I just made the Challah this week and it was so easy and tasty.
Hi. I read in your book that beached flour will lead to a wetter dough, but I would like to use up the last of my beached flour before buying unbleached flour as you recomment. Do you know how to compensate using bleached instead of unbleached flour? Add extra flour? How much?
Thanks.
Hi Dan,
Great ideas! I think I’ll set up a post where people can submit all their ideas for the new book! We are writing it in response to all of the ideas and requests you’ve had.
Thanks, Zoë
Hi Wynette,
bleached all-purpose flour does not have as much protein in it as unbleached flour and so there isn’t enough gluten to get a really nice crumb. If you want to experiment with your bleached flour than I would say that you will end up needing to add up to 1/2 cup extra flour.
Good luck! Be sure to compare it to bread made with an unbleached flour.
Thanks, Zoë
Hi Jeff and Zoe, I love, love, love your book! I got it in December and have made quite a few of the breads and they all turn out great. I am recommending it to everyone who tastes it. Easter is coming up and I am wondering if you think the Brioche recipe could work for Hot Cross Buns? If anyone else here as any suggestions for an easy no-knead 5 minute style Hot Cross buns, I would love to try it. thanks, Jesse
Hi Jesse,
Another reader just asked about hot cross buns. Here is what I suggested, see what you think!
Did you take a look at the Panettone recipe on page 201? If you just add nutmeg and remove the lemon extract and zest you are pretty much there.
You could even add the icing:
1 1/2 cups confectioners sugar
1/4 teaspoon vanilla
2 tablespoons warm milk
Just mix it all together and slather it on!
Thanks again and enjoy the bread!
Zoë
About the cratering – I noticed a couple of other entries about being less aggressive with the cloaking which I’ve tried and that’s helped – I was really pulling and rolling in under before. As to the brioche dough rising, since I posted that comment, I’ve made another batch and let it rise for 4 hours – nearly came out of the bucket – so, you’re right, I wasn’t letting it rise long enough.
Thanks for writing the book and your’s and Jeff’s feedback through the website.
With Easter coming up I’d like to make Hot Cross Buns. I didn’t see a recipe in the book. Do you suggest one of the doughs from the book? If so, which one and how long would I bake them, temp, etc.
BTW, the Babka turned out great by increasing the chocolate/raisins..perfection!
One more thing, I have raved about your book to friends. Some have purchased it and others tried the library. One friend is number 26 on the waiting list! It’s very popular and rightfully so!!!
Thanks for your reply on 3/6/08. I posted a picture of my bread after it had cooled on this website:
https://cookinandlovinit.blogspot.com/
This loaf was not as much of a ball as the previous one.
I wish I had gotten a shot of that one while it was baking–it was hilarious!
The crumb was similar on both loaves, though. Does it look right for the light whole wheat peasant recipe?
I searched through the Q and A and I can’t find an answer to my particular question- when I take my dough out of the fridge, I don’t need to cut a piece off, it kind of breaks apart. It also has a very dense crumb (but that could be that I’m over-kneading, oops!). I first tried the master recipe with a whole wheat flour that promised to bake as white flour so I thought that was the problem. However, I just tried with pillsbury all purpose and got the same breaking apart thing. Is my dough not wet enough?
And thanks for the book- even the dense bread has been good!
I’ve just mixed my first batch of the boule dough, and I was wondering what you think about baking the loaves in a dutch oven. I’ve had good success with that using the NYTimes no-knead bread recipe. Thanks for your input.
I just made your boule using 4oz of beer and 2T of white vinegar, it came out tasteing like the sour dough that I remember eating in San Francisco. The aroma was the greatest too. Try it you will like it. Jessie
I just got my copy of the book and it’s one of the few cookbooks that I’ve just sat down and read. You all did a good job.
My question is: How do I make hamburger and hot dog buns?
Thank you so much for your book: not just a new technique, but a whole collection of great recipes, an international taste tour. I am working with fresh-ground, whole wheat flours, and so far the results have been wonderful. Here is my question: several of my loaves have glued themselves to the baking stone. I watched the video, and it looks like I’m using about as much cornmeal. Perhaps the difference is older dough – it seems to get wetter as it ages. Could too-wet dough cause it to stick to the stone, and if so, what can I do about it?
OMG…made the sticky buns and thought, jeez that can’t be enough sticky topping…let me catch my breath! Thank you so much for this book, thank you, thank you, thank you. I will report more when I recover.
Someone asked about storing bread, and I’ve happened on a decent method.
If you’ve ever visited an IKEA store, they sell large tote bags for 59 cents each. I decided to cut one apart and used the fabric to make a bread bag about 22″ long and about 12″ in diameter (I’m making baguettes these days). I used the Ikea strap to make a carry handle, and the bread bag hangs on a hook in the kitchen (actually we have 4 bags since I make 6 loaves at a time). Each bag can hold 1 or 2 loaves.
The loaf goes in and stays fairly fresh until eaten, and the open end of the bag allows the loaf to breathe somewhat so the crust doesn’t soften. Admittedly, the bread doesn’t last too long before being eaten, but some loaves have gone 3-4 days before consumption
Hi Kate,
The whole wheat dough will definitely be drier and may not develop enough gluten (stretch)which often results in a denser loaf of bread.
I’m more curious about the dough you made out of Pillsbury flour. This dough should have gotten enough elasticity to require cutting out of the bucket? Perhaps you are right and the dough was just too dry? Try adding a couple more tablespoons of water ans see if it is stretchier.
Thanks and keep in touch! Zoë
Hi Jessie,
This is very exciting. Thanks for the tip!
Zoë
Hi Cynthia,
Glad you enjoyed the buns, hope you’ve recovered well and are on to the next batch!!!
Zoë
Hi Sally,
The Dutch Oven works great for our dough.
Have fun! Zoë
Hi Ron,
I just saw your request on egullet. Let me know if you still have questions!
Try the American style white bread(p. 204)or the Buttermilk bread (p. 207)!
Thanks, Zoë
Hi Lisa,
I had a dough stick to the stone while we were baking in Phoenix. It was the first time I’d seen that happen with our dough. It was a particularly wet batch and I was using ceramic tiles and not the thick baking stone. Not sure what caused it? A little more cornmeal or baking on parchment should solve the issue. After a few more minutes in the oven my dough dried out enough that it released from the tiles pretty easily!
Thanks and good luck. Zoë
Hi Karen,
The Dutch Oven (DO)is a great way to bake the bread but you have to be careful when dealing with the raging hot pot. Just stick the DO in the oven when you are preheating. Once your dough has rested transfer it to the DO and put on the lid. About 25 minutes into the baking take off the lid and let it bake without for another 10-15 minutes. Many people crank the oven way up to like 475-500 degrees while preheating and then drop the heat to 450 once the dough is in the pan.
Good luck! Zoë
Hi Doug,
I have some thoughts on the bread bag you made from Ikea totes. Plastic should be food grade if you are going to store food in it. Otherwise chemicals used in the manufacturing may leach into your food. Instead, check out King Arthur Flour–they carry a variety of sizes of bread bags–these would be much safer to store your loaves in.
Happy baking!
Trisha
Is there merit in using the bread’s internal temperature to determine doneness? Thank you.
Trisha: Agree, everything should be food grade.
Jeff: After lots of debate, Zoe and I decided not to put the internal temp/thermometer routine into our book. There were a number of reasons. First off, other than the most expensive thermometers, these are anything but “instant-read.” I’ve found that the reading continues to increase for nearly five minutes, which is very annoying. Beyond that, we’ve found that color is a very reliable method (deep brown for most of our loaves). The only way color can be misleading is when you have an overly warm oven and don’t know it. In that case, the color browns up before the interior is fully baked. So we’d lean toward buyin an oven thermometer rather than a food thermometer. Jeff
Hi Zoe,
thanks for the hot cross buns advice. I made up the dough last night and baked them this morning and took them with me to school. I took out the lemon essence, but decided to leave in the lemon zest. I added a bit of cloves, cinnamon, and nutmeg. I replaced the water in the pannetone recipe with milk. I used about half of the batch to make one baking pan of twenty buns. Baked them for 20 minutes at 400 degrees. The frosting was great, too. They were just as good if not better than the ones I remember at the artisan bakery in Vancouver I shopped at when I lived there. Thanks, again!
Jesse
Hi Jesse,
I’m so glad your hot cross buns worked so well! I’ll try it using the tips you’ve suggested.
Thanks, Zoë
Hi,
I just made my first batch of the Master Recipe. The recipe says it make 4 1-lb loaves, but it uses only 2 lbs of flour … not sure how to get 4 lbs of bread out of that. My loaves are much lighter than 1 lb each. Am I missing something? Thanks!
Hi Jean,
4 1# loaves is an approximate amount per batch. Some of the breads will result in exactly 4 and some will be slightly over or under. It should only be off by a couple of ounces (before baking). If you weigh your loaf after baking it will be less.
Thanks, Zoë
Coming back to report that my ‘cloaking’ problem is resolved by less aggressive pulling of the dough. And I’ve discovered a variation of the bran-enriched white bread that has become our staple sandwich bread:
3 1/2-4 cups cups lukewarm water
4 tsp yeast
4 tsp kosher salt
4 cups KA unbleached white flour
2 cups KA white whole wheat flour
3/4 cup ground flax meal
This makes approx 4 small sandwich loaves. The crust is thin and chewy, the crumb is soft and the taste is similar to a mild sourdough. (I hold back a bit of the last batch of dough for the next batch)
I like this bread because it has the texture of a sandwich bread with a heartier taste and the addition of the flax meal increases protein and the good omega fats. It’s also pretty to look at with the lovely golden flecks.
Hi Jeff and Zoe.
Your streamlined method for making yeast bread is wonderful. My first attempt was at making the Peasant Bread using King Arthur’s artisan bread flour, which has a mix of flours and the bread came out great. Your directions are very accurate.
Question: I would like to make whole grain bagels so how can I adjust the flour composition in your recipe to meet with success?
I’m curious, is the master recipe scalable? The loaves are a great size for me and my husband but I’m wondering if I wanted to make a larger one (say, for company), could I pinch off more dough and just bake it a little longer? Or do I need to stick to making several regular-sized ones?
I have a couple of questions and a comment.
I’d like experiment with baking different sizes of loaves at the same time. Can I bake two full loaves at once? Can I take the recipe for one loaf and make several mini loaves? How do I adjust for the cooking times?
Also – I found a couple of great ways to make the dough rise – I set it on the dishwasher when it is running so it uses the heat generated from the dishwasher, or I heat up two cups of water in the microwave, turn off the microwave (but leave the water inside) and set the dough in the microwave (but don’t turn it back on!)The water lets off heat, and the microwave interior holds it in.
Can you help me figure out why the pan loaves I make are on the small side? I’m using the correct size pan, but need to fill it with ~2x as much dough to get it to be a proper loaf. I let the original big batch of dough rise until it’s well over double in size (~5 hrs), then let the loaf in the pan rise ~1.5 hours before baking. But the final product is small? Ideas? Thanks!
Jodie
PS – thanks for answering a whole wheat question of mine a week or so ago!
Thanks for all these great comments, I’ll try to answer in one message here:
LJ: Thank you for the flax recipe! We are working on one of our own, so this is good timing.
Jovina: For whole grain bagels, it all depends on how much whole grain you want. If you want to use about 20% whole wheat by volume, you probably don’t need to change the recipe all that much, maybe a few tablespoons extra water in the mixing bucket. Beyond that, you need extra water or the dough will be dry and not store well. If you go 50% whole wheat, you’ll need about a quarter cup, or even a half-cup of extra water. This will take some experimentation.
Melissa: The loaves are definitely scalable, but you need to bake longer unless you make very flat loaves. For a two-pound loaf figure on about 40 to 45 minutes at 450 degrees F. Even longer for larger ones, maybe an hour for a 3-pound loaf.
Sandy: Doing a number of small loaves doesn’t seem to change the baking time, and I’ve been doing the mini-loaf pan lately (about a half-pound), and it seems to take about 25 minutes to bake. Small free-form loaves (like rolls) may take as little as 20 minutes in a 450 degree oven.
Your idea about a warm humid environment definitely speeds the resting/rising process and I sometimes do it when I’m in a hurry.
Jodie: Bottom line is that our method rises less than traditional. If you want a large loaf-pan bread, just fill it higher in the pan and bake longer accordingly. Jeff
Thank you for your quick response to my question. I also noticed the bread in the recipes I’ve tried from your book don’t seem to rise as much as I’d expected. Today I tried the Italian semolina bread, and it tasted great and the texture was very nice, but was only about 1 1/2 inches high. Does that sound right? I also wondered if I deflate the bread too much when I slice the top with a knife before baking. Thank you!
Sandy: Our stuff is expanding, but often the expansion is sideways rather than up. If it weren’t so, you’d have a dense hockey puck, and that’s not what you say you’re getting. It’s challenging to get our doughs to move up rather than out. Loaf pans are one way, but that’s a different character altogether. Another option is to “cloak” a bit more, that gives more structure to the loaf.
One other option is to use a little less water… if it’s drier, it won’t expand sideways as much. That might be the first thing to try. Or go to a higher-protein flour like King Arthur All-Purpose Unbleached. Jeff
Thanks for the hot cross bun recipe adaption Zoe. Tried it and they were good. Not so much the traditional hot cross version, but a delicious currant bun nevertheless. I used 200 grams of organic currants and 1 teaspoon of nutmeg. I think it could have probably handled more spice ~ maybe ginger, cinnamon, allspice, and perhaps a tad less fruit. Am going to do them again with more spice and mixed peel addition. Keep those recipes coming. We are getting the most fabulous crust on the buttermilk bread ~ our during the week toast and sandwich fave. I’m using a NOT non-stick french bread tin that someone gave me years ago and absolutely no sticking problems at all.
Hi Kerrie,
I’m glad you enjoyed the buns. Please let me know when you settle on the perfect Hot Cross Buns.
Thanks, Zoë
Hi,
I just made the spinach feta loaf and when I cut into it it was wet. I wasn’t sure if that was from the feta and spinach or b/c it was not finished cooking. Any thoughts?
Thanks,
Nikki