Q&A MISC. Bread Questions
Until we can figure out a more sophisticated way to handle your feedback, your praise and your questions, we hope the following series of Q&A posts will help. Our goal is to get a conversation going about a particular topic in one location. Hoping that it will be easier for you to follow and get the information you need to bake gorgeous bread.
If we haven’t started a thread on the subject you are interested in then leave it here and we can create another post!
Thank you so much for all of the conversation. We enjoy it immensely and are learning so much from you all!
Zoë and Jeff
Hi Lynn, welcome to our site, we’re so pleased that our book has a presence in the UK. Here goes:
First, don’t pack the flour at all, use the “scoop and sweep” method (see our videos under the “Media” tab here on the website). Or weigh it; a U.S. cup of unbleached all-purpose flour weighs 5 ounces or 140 grams. Same for whole wheat flour (at least the kind we get here; experiment a bit).
About salt, adjust as you like; the recipes work with no salt at all if you have a health problem where you can’t eat any. Be aware that low-salt versions perform poorly at high altitude (above about 4000 or 5000 feet). Jeff
I’ve been wanting to make a stuffed baguette but I’m concerned about the wetness of the dough. By stuffing, I mean some sliced meat and cheese.
Would the baguette dough be amenable to this sort of treatment?
No problem Felice. Our baguette is made from the basic boule dough on page 26, which we also use for any number of stuffed specialties like calzone, spinach feta bread, etc. The spinach feta is a good example… it works even though it’s boule-shaped and has a deep center. The depth to the center of a baguette is shallower, so it should be even easier to bake through.
Note that the baking time may be increased; go by color as usual. My guess is that the baguette will need 35 minutes or so rather than 30 at 450 F. Jeff
Thanks for the response. I’ll put up some dough tonight and see how it goes. Btw, the KA rye enhancer worked well. I was very happy with the results. So, apparently, was my cleaning person. A barely started loaf disappeared the day she was here.
Don’t feel bad Felice. I conspicuously leave fresh bread around for the babysitters to find. They eat it, and we never have trouble finding people to babysit. Jeff
Okay, you got another non bread baker hooked! I love it!
I just made the pacan caramel rolls this morning and they were fabulous. I was just wondering if there was a way to start them the night before as we didn’t get to eat them until 10:40 (we had a second wave of breakfast).
I was wondering if parbaking would work with this recipe or if I could roll, cut and put them in the pan then put it in the refridgerator overnight. Would I need to let it rest before baking in the morning or could it go right into the oven?
Thanks again!
Hi Jodi,
I’ve been preparing the sticky buns, placing them in the cake pan, covering the pan with plastic wrap and letting them rise very slowly in the refrigerator over night. The next morning I pull them out of the refrigerator and let them sit on the counter for about 30 minutes and then into a preheated oven. Much less wait and they are wonderful!
Try that and see what you think.
Thanks and we are so glad you have started baking so much bread!
Zoë
Thanks! I will try that and my family will be thrilled.
Jodi
Okay, one more question. Do you think I could put the rolls in the freezer? I am thinking that I would like to bring them over to my in-laws for breakfast the morning after Thanksgiving and we have to travel about an hour. That way I could put them, frozen, in the fridge when I arrive so they are ready the next morning. Am I over thinking this??
Hi Jodi,
I think I’ve found the only other person on earth that thinks about sticky buns as much as I do! 😉
I think your plan will work just great. I find that some of the enriched doughs don’t freeze as well once they are more than 5 days old. If you do this with an older dough you will have to let the buns rise longer in the morning.
Have a great time and please let me know how it turns out!
Zoë
LOVE your book, and LOVE making bread! Only my boule is REALLY dense and very yeasty tasting, even when I lower the amount of yeast. I have the most success with the Challah which I adore, but when the dough ages for more than a few days, I find that it gets yeasty too! Help, my family loves bread, but not really MY bread (yet). Thanks
Thanks Mei, let’s see if we can sort this out. As you know, our dough is intended to mature in its flavor over its storage life, developing sourdough characteristics during that time. That’s not to everyone’s liking; your family may be perceiving sourdough notes as “yeastiness,” and it may not be for them. If that ends up being the case, I’d recommend you only store the dough for 3 days maximum.
But I have one suggestion. First, you say you’ve been decreasing the yeast, but have you tried radically decreasing it? Instead of using 1 and 1/2 tablespoons, why don’t you try using 3/4 teaspoon. Keep in mind that you’ll need to let the dough rise at room temp for MUCH longer, probably overnight or longer. But the flavor will be gentler and not taste as much of commercial yeast. As for the density problem with the boule, check out our post on this subject at: https://artisanbreadinfive.com/?p=141. Key on that list is a longer rest time– 40 minutes was a compromise and you can go longer if you’re finding stuff to be too dense. Let me know how you make out with this. Jeff
I am a bread machine bread maker but wanted to try your method.The breads are beautiful.My first loaf crust was tough, don’t know if I handled it too much and the crumb was big spaces.I baked it after 4 days of initial dough.I am now making another loaf to see if that is problem but also noticed moisture in lid,not tight fitting but some had dripped in dough this time??
Thanks for website, love it
Maggey
Maggey: Check out our videos on the “Media” page and see if you’re handling it too much. That can lead to a dense result, which it doesn’t sound like you are getting. A thin crust is produced by an effective steam environment, as we describe in the book. Are you using steam, and are you convinced it stays in the oven (or are there leaks?).
No problem about the moisture and the dripping, that shoudln’t hurt anything. Jeff
First attempts:the chewy, long awaited, Ciabatta dipped in Olio Verde. Then the deli-rye made into patty melts…be still my heart. Now I have a loaf of Sunflower Bread (substituted pepitas because that’s what I had)cooling on a rack, and for this one I have a question. Not 10 minutes into the baking I noticed the crust getting seriously brown (and trust me I love brown), so at 15 minutes I decided it really needed to be tented. This recipe did not call for an egg wash or any other crust prep…would that help cut down on what seemed to be advanced browning, or is this just the nature of this particular bread? Thanks so much for all the fun this book has given me, and it’s just amazing how you both take so much time and effort to educate us all in this wonderful process. I really got a kick out of your comments about your bread instuctor and this wonderful loaf. I will roll the next loaf out and add cranberries, brown sugar and some cinnamon, and try baking it in my long cloche.
Thank you so much Nancy, your comments are much appreciated here!
Tenting can be a good option, but when we tested the bread, it didn’t happen to us. Any chance your oven’s too hot (checked with an oven thermometer?).
If the oven’s fine, next thing I’d ask about is shelf placement. Top crusts brown too fast when placed high in the oven, so try a lower shelf.
It it’s neither of these, tent away! Jeff
Me again, I baked my second loaf which sprawled, so I cut several slits before baking,yes I used steam and the crust seemed better.The stupid thing was I forgot to test internal temp and the center was not fully baked.Bummer. Also, I spoke with a pampered chef rep and if you put your stone in after the inital preheat it is ok, some ovens use broiler preheat. I used my stone which I have had for years and it worked good. Can’t wait to try that raisin bread.
Thanks Jeff & Zoe..
I’ve been having a problem with the challah recipe. It’s fine the day I make it, but by the next day, it’s very crumbly and somewhat dry, much more so than any other challah I’ve ever had. Since I am Sabbath observant, I need to bake my challahs on Friday, including the ones for Saturday lunch, so I can’t just bake as needed. I haven’t had problems with any of the other recipes I’ve made from the book (about a dozen), just this one. Any ideas? Thanks!
Gila: I’m not crazy about day-old challah myself. Unlike commercial bread, homemade bread has no preservatives and it’s usually not great the next day.
But, one thing you could try is making several challahs and put the extras in a plastic bag when they’re completely cool. Our book suggests not to do that– it softens the crust– but it’s really OK for challah, which is intended to have a soft crust. This will prevent the evaporation which leads to dryness.
One other thing you could do is modestly increase the honey (1/8 or 1/4 cup). Sugar is “hydroscopic” (water-attracting) and a sweeter bread will be less dry when it’s a day old. Jeff
I’ve actually been doing both, and it doesn’t help, but thanks anyway!
I made the cinnamon raisin bread from the buttermilk dough yesterday and it came out tough, not a problem I’ve ever had with your doughs before. Tough bread is usually a result of overkneading, but I don’t see how that could be the case here. The only change I made in the recipe was using buttermilk powder and water, rather than buying buttermilk specially. The flavor and crumb of the bread were good otherwise. Could overbaking be the problem?
Hi Felice,
it sounds like it may not have rested long enough before baking? How large was the loaf and how long did it sit before you put it in the oven?
I don’t think the powdered buttermilk would do it either.
Thanks, Zoë
The dough had been in the fridge for 2 days before baking and I let it sit about 1 hour 50 min. in the pan before baking. I used mini loaf pans and baked about 30 min at 375. I’m thinking 20 min. might have been a better idea.
Hi Felice,
You certainly let it rest long enough, so perhaps you are right, 20 minutes for a mini loaf with that much rise time may be enough.
Please let me know if that does it, otherwise we’ll keep trying to solve the mystery.
Zoë
Just to follow up with regard to my dry challah, I found this weekend that increasing the honey by a full quarter cup, to 3/4 cup (and reducing the water by a tablespoon) made a much moister, less crumbly challah. I also stored it in ziplocks, which I had been doing already, but which I think also helps. Obviously, this makes the challah somewhat sweeter, but it’s not so sweet that it turns cakey, and it was very well received by my family and guests, people who’ve eaten challah every week for their entire lives. (I’ve also decreased the kosher salt to 1 tablespoon, although I don’t know that that would affect the water-retaining properties of the dough.)
Gila: That was a great thought, and now that you’ve done it, I’m not surprised it worked. Should have thought of it myself!
Salt is hygroscopic too but not so much that you’d cause a problem by the decrease you suggest. Thanks for hanging in there with our recipe! Jeff
Hi guys – I’ve been baking your bread all summer and have had great success…until this week. I tried the 100% Whole Wheat Loaf recipe, and tried baking it both in a boule shape and in the loaf pan. Both times the crust was more or less burnt and the inside barely done.
The same oven settings – temp and shelf placement – gets me GORGEOUS loaves when I do the master recipe, the olive oil loaf, and even a 50/50 whole wheat recipe. Any ideas on why this one burns? And how I should adjust if I want to keep trying the whole wheat?
Hi Jen,
What kind of whole wheat flour are you using? You may want to add 2-4 tablespoons of vital wheat gluten to the flour before mixing it into the dough. Whole wheat is fabulous and high in protein but all that bran wreaks havoc on the gluten, which means it sometimes won’t rise well.
Another thing to try is letting it rest before baking for as much as 2 hours. It should not feel chilled when you go to put it in the oven.
I hope this helps. Thanks so much for writing.
Zoë
I was using King Arthur 100% WW. I’ll try the extra resting and the vital gluten trick and will let you know!
Hi Jen,
You may also want to add a few extra tablespoons of water with the KA flours. They tend to be higher in protein and absorb more water.
Let me know!
Zoë
This isn’t a question, just a heads-up. In yesterday’s New York Times, Mark Bittman has a recipe for faster no-knead bread that uses more yeast and has a shorter rising time (about 4 hours). Thought you’d like to know in case you missed it!
Hi Ann,
Thanks for the heads up, it is very kind of you! We both did see the article. It seems like he was inspired by Lahey’s method and married it to one like ours and came up with the one you mention? What do you think of it?
Thanks again, Zoë
Zoe,
I haven’t tried it yet but of course I will give it a spin!
At first glance, it does seem to be a kind of hybrid between your method and Lahey’s. However, unlike your method, you can’t make a large batch of dough to store and bake over a longer period of time with the Bittman recipe. Another big drawback of the Lahey/Bittman recipe (at least for me) is the consistency of the dough. It’s so sticky that it’s hard to work with. Yours is much, much more user-friendly.
It’s interesting to see all the variations that can be played on the theme of yeast, flour, water and salt!
I have a batch of master recipe dough made with unbleached flour, about one week old, that is developing dark brown clumps and streaks. What is this? Also, I have found semolina instead of cornmeal works well to allow the shaped dough to slide onto the stone. I am enjoying the bread, can’t wait to try more.
Hi Rhonda,
This is a natural byproduct of the dough. The yeast produces an alcohol and it sometimes turns the dough brown. It is all part of the process, like a natural preservative. You can just pour off any excess liquid that develops. If there is just a little bit of dough left in the bucket, you can just mix a fresh batch of dough over the old. This jump starts the flavor in the next batch.
Happy baking !
Zoë
Hi Guys – have my first batch of the master recipe in the fridge and ready to go tomorrow – really looking forward to it!
In the meantime I have read ahead and amongst all the salivation over the yummy recipes to try, came across your recipe for a granary-style loaf. You have no idea how happy this has made me as a displaced Brit now permanently resident here in the US – I miss this type of bread so much.
Anyway, my question is which malt powder to purchase: diastatic or non-diastatic. Hard choice as King Arthur carries both and their descriptions leave me confused – am I after flavor (non-diastatic) or rise (diastatic). My initial guess is non-diastatic, but I would love to know for sure.
Thanks and happy loafing!
Hi Lynn: I have non-diastatic in my cupboard. Diastatic malt contains some enzymes that help yeast to grow and multiply more thoroughly, but given our long, long fermentation, this seemed unnecessary. So use the non-diastatic malt (actually, it won’t matter all that much to the final flavor).
More concerning though is that since our book’s come out, King Arthur has stopped selling malted wheat flakes, and that’s really crucial to the flavor. I can’t figure out an alternative, except for ordering the genuine article from Britain. You actually can get Granary flour which is a blend of malted and non-malted wheat– that’s how it’s traditionally made in Britain, but then, this recipe would need some tweaking. It’s made by Hovis: https://britishsportshop.com/britishfood.asp?id=ZZ0003, and I can’t say I’ve done this, but if you do, please let us know how it turns out. SEE BELOW, LATER RESPONSE FOR MORE—>
Otherwise you can increase the malt powder a bit, but it’s just not going to be the same. Jeff
I love your book and have made many of the recipes with success. I would love to try the pumpernickel but don’t know where to get carmel coloring. KA is too expensive. Can it be made at home?
Thanks for any help.
Thanks Kathy.
Yes, caramel color can be made at home, but not as a powder– you end up with a liquid that gets added to recipes and technically you should decrease the liquid a bit to account for the extra. Here’s what I’ve done (it won’t be quite as dark a result as powdered caramel color): Put 3 tablespoons sugar and 1 tablespoon water into a saucepan. Melt the sugar over a low flame, then increase heat to medium-high, cover, and bring to a boil for 2 minutes. Add a pinch of cream of tartar and continue to boil uncovered until the mixture becomes very dark. Remove from heat and allow to cool partially. Very carefully, add a quarter cup of boiling water to the pan (it may sputter and water may jump out of the pan so wear gloves and keep your face away from it). Dissolve the caramelized sugar and cool to room temp. Use about a quarter-cup of this mixture in place of commercial caramel color powder in our Pumpernickel recipe on page 67. Jeff
King Arthur Flour just wrote back to confirm that they no longer carry malted wheat flakes but suggest you can get them in health food or other specialty stores. I’ll check it out around here. Jeff
Thanks Jeff – appreciate the update – we have a really great natural foods co-op here in San Francisco (Rainbow) so they will be my first try. On-line searches always send me back to the UK to companies like Shipton Mill and Dove’s Farm – so I may end up asking our UK visitors to bring supplies with them! Any info I come up with I will certainly post here.
–Lynn
Lynn: The best flour I ever baked with was Shipton Mill Traditional Organic White Flour (Mavis Widgeon wheat variety, 12% protein). It made the best bread I’ve ever done, on a sublime trip to the Cotswalds with wife and kids in summer 2007. Thanks for bringing back that memory. Jeff
Jeff I just read your post on making caramel color to add to the Pumpernickel Bread recipe pg 67. You wrote “technically you should decrease the liquid a bit to account for the extra liquid.” Then you said to add about a quarter-cup of the caramel color liquid. Does that mean that you would reduce the water called for in the recipe by a quarter cup? Thanks in advance.
Barbara
Barbara: I’d reduce the liquid by slightly less than a quarter cup, since some of that is sugar. But we’re in inexact science here. This is why I switched to the powder, it took away a bit of uncertainty. But as Kathy said, the commercial stuff is crazily expensive. If you’re really comfortable with our method, you know that you can adjust the liquid and solid ingredients to give the you loose consistency that we’re after in this approach. That’s called for if you use home made caramel color!
Happy experimenting… Jeff
Thanks, I can’t wait to try the caramel color in my next loaf. I think i can manage to burn sugar! I have made so much bread this summer and fall that I have a good feel for what the dough should look and feel like.
Jeff & Zoe,
I have to thank you again for writing this book. My latest tries were making baguettes & herb boules for 40 people at my sister-in-laws baby shower. Everyone loved it. One person took an extra loaf for a prize in a game. My family loved the semolina & my husband and I loved the Zatar flatbread.
I read the post about barley flakes. I don’t know if it tastes the same but I made it with Malto-O-Meal and gave it to lady I know from England and she said it tasted correct. Thanks again!
All I can say is WoW!!! The bread is wonderful, easy and (just think)–no preservatives…All I want to do these days is bake bread..Ilove it Thanks so much…
Kathy: Yes, let us know how it goes with the homemade caramel color, I’m sure it will work for you.
Beth: So glad you sought out the za’atar, it’s quite worth it and nothing like anything your guests have ever had, I’d bet. I’d never had it till I stumbled on it. Malt-O-Meal’s a great idea, I should try that– more a malted barley flavor rather than malted wheat, but it’s close I bet (could also try more malt powder for similar effect?). But I’d go with the native Englishwoman when in doubt on this loaf!
Teresa: Welcome to the site, and thank you so much for your comments. Stop by anytime with questions. Jeff
Hello,
I am from spain and I have just bougth your book. I found it on internet and I loved the idea (I normally do my own bread but in the traditional way). But From the firts pages I have a linguistic doubt. When you say atorage in the refrigerator you mean in the 5º C degrees or in the -18ºC degrees?
Than you in advance
Nagore
Nagore: I mean 40 degrees Fahrenheit, which is 5 degrees Celsius. There’s a great conversion utility at Google. Just go to any google search line and type in “X degrees Fahrenheit in Celsius.” It will return the conversion. You can do this with U.S. to metric as well, for example typing in “2 pounds in kg.” It will return the kilogram equivalent. Gracias por usando nuestro libro. And apologies for my poor Spanish. Jeff