Q&A MISC. Bread Questions
Until we can figure out a more sophisticated way to handle your feedback, your praise and your questions, we hope the following series of Q&A posts will help. Our goal is to get a conversation going about a particular topic in one location. Hoping that it will be easier for you to follow and get the information you need to bake gorgeous bread.
If we haven’t started a thread on the subject you are interested in then leave it here and we can create another post!
Thank you so much for all of the conversation. We enjoy it immensely and are learning so much from you all!
Zoë and Jeff
Britt: What you’re describing with definitely work, and I used to do something similar to it. I continue to do something similar (though using small plastic tubs) with enriched doughs which I don’t use often and only have a 5 day refrigeration life.
Like many people, you may find you prefer the hole structure more when you let the initial post-shaping rest go for longer than 40 minutes. 60 to 90 minutes are good for many people.
So go for it, and give my regards to Oxford, a lovely city that I haven’t been back to in 25 years, even though though I was just in Gloucestershire in summer 2007. We bought and baked off some of the best flour I’ve ever eaten: Shipton Mill Traditional Organic White Flour. It’s made with the Maris Widgeon wheat variety and is 12% protein. Try it if you see it and it’s not a fortune! Jeff
Hello,
I just purchased your book based on the review in the Seattle PI! I mixed up my first batch of dough last night and I’m looking forward to baking my first loaf tonight while teaching my kids so they can do all the future baking. I’m interested in getting a recipe for “Swedish” Rye Bread–I think it’s different because it doesn’t have the caroway seeds?? If you can get me a recipe for that based on the procedure in your book, I’ll get a book and supplies for my mom for Christmas!! She’s very difficult to shop for and since that’s her favorite type of bread, I think this would be a perfect gift!
Thanks!
Robin
You should try our limpa on page 65, which is close to what you’re seeking I think. It’s not just that there’s no caraway, there are traditional Scandinavian spices instead. There’s a Swedish Rye recipe on Epicurious’s website, if you go to https://www.epicurious.com/recipes/food/views/Swedish-Rye-Bread-2820. But keep in mind that traditional recipes aren’t really wet enough to store and do the no-knead approach. So once you get comfortable with out method, you can start experimenting with traditional recipes, wetting them down a bit so the consistency is more like ours.
I think our limpa will be a better option, but see what you think.
Bake mom the limpa and let us know how she likes it. Tell her Jeff said it reminds him of his childhood in Stockholm (not true)!
Jeff/Zoe,
My sister gave me your book for my birthday, and I have been having a wonderful time baking many many breads! On that same birthday, my mother gave me a digital kitchen scale. I have been just measuring out the flour as you outline in your book (scoop and level) but I have been using the scale to weigh my dough. I have noticed that I am consistently getting considerably less out of a batch of dough than what the book says I should be getting. For instance, using the “master recipe” I only get 3.5# of dough. Using the buttermilk recipe, I only got 3.75# of dough. It’s not a huge issue, I usually make a smallish pizza or some rolls, or 2, .75# loaves with the remainder of the dough, but I am a bit frustrated when I think I will be getting 3 loaves of bread and I only end up with 2 loaves and a little bit left over.
Am I doing something wrong?
Thanks.
No, it’s not your problem at all, Camille. Most of our recipes are on the skimpy side and you will only get 4 loaves if you make them about 0.8 pounds, not 1.0 pounds. Should have said “…about 1 pound…”). In our second book we are being careful to estimate on the high side.
Sorry about that. Maybe you should double the recipes if you eat bread every day? It will only be about 7 one-pound loaves, which you can probably finish off in a week. But then I didn’t hear how many people in your household? Jeff
Well, there are only 4 of us, so a single batch would work fine… except I’ve been taking bread to mom’s groups, to my in-laws, to friends’ houses, and I’ve been feeding the neighbor kids pizzas… so we go through a lot! 🙂 I’ll consider making a 13-14 oz loaf instead. Thanks for your response.
Hello Jeff:
Many thanks for the Shipton Mill recommendation; I’ve already found them on the web and will order some. And next time you come to Merrie England, you’re always invited to Oxford, which is still beautiful (and has a great French patisserie, Maison Blanc, which has great bread, and may not have been there 25 years ago).
Thanks for the suggestion to make the post-shaping rest 60-90 mins. Can you please tell me more about the purpose of hole structure, or is this covered on one of your other sites? Presumably we want bigger holes, yes? I know they look nice, but is there any other reason for them?
With many thanks,
Britt
I am about to try to sunflower breakfast bread and am wondering if the sunflower seeds should be raw or roasted?
Thanks.
Hi– I’ve tried the master recipe, the european peasant, and the rye bread with really good results. Having trouble with the pumpernickel, though, and wondering if I’m understanding the recipe correctly. You say to use wet hands instead of flour– do you mean not to add any flour sprinkled on the loaf for cloaking? That is what I tried, and got lots of sideways spread (undesirable but edible). Then I tried the pumpernickel date- disaster! The wet dough could not be rolled after sprinkling on the dates. Should I be adding flour for cloaking the loaf, or before rolling for the pumpernickel date loaf?
Many thanks!
Mary: Pumpernickel’s a bit tricky. I found that if I “cloaked” with flour, the loaf seemed to dis-assemble with oven spring. So I experimented with wet hands rather than flouring the hands and the loaf. Keeping it really wet prevented the dis-assembly. But it seems that for whatever reason, yours is too wet and is spreading sideways.
So, a couple of suggestions, all geared at a drier result that will be easier to handle and won’t spread sideways. Either:
1. Use a little more flour, like a quarter-cup in the original mix.
2. Just cloak with flour rather than wet hands.
Let us know how you make out, and thanks for your enthusiasm!
Jeff
We now make bread daily from your book – the kids won’t eat anything else. We’ve been experimenting with an even lazier technique: no minutes a day bread, and wonder what you think.
Step 1. Generally we make a batch of the basic dough in early evening. It sits out for an hour or so, and sometimes (but not always) gets refrigerated.
Step 2. Before bed 1/2 the batch gets dumped into a buttered loaf pan and
put into the cold (not lit) oven. The extra dough goes back in the fridge. If we remember we put cold water in the broiler pan on the rack below.
Step 3. We set the oven timer to turn on the oven in the morning 30 minutes before we get up and cook the bread at 475 for 35 minutes.
Step 4. Wake up, eat. 0 minutes a day. Perfect for a frenetic “launch the school day and parents to work schedule”
Our questions are:
1. Is there any way to get more bubbles (a little less density) in the final loaf? The basic recipe is pretty good, and more water seems to help, but most of the wheat mixture recipes come out rather dense. Do we need more water? Is the overnight rise in the pan in the oven the problem?
2. We’ve been using the oven’s convection setting, which takes 475 and drops it to 450 automatically. The oven is new, well insulated, and gas. In general, how much does convection matter? We didn’t see any notes on that in your book and wonder what you suggest.
Amazing work on the technique and recipes!
Hi Jeff and Zoe,
I want to “third” the request for gluten/wheat-free recipes. I hope the chapter you’re working on for your next book will be nice and fat! You could also reference other recipes of yours that work with simple flour/binder substitution.
Also, do you have any plans to publish your books with metric measurements?
Thanks a bunch,
Paula
Hello,
First, THANK YOU for this book. It is amazing. I used to make bread but not often becuase of all the time it took (you can’t come home from work and think I want bread with dinner tonight). I also had a bread machine but was never really happy with the bread it produced. This bread is the BEST. Recently went on vacation visited a bakery, had a baguette and said (to myself) my crumb is better than this! Anyway I am going through quite a bit of yeast at about $10/a small jar at our local grocery. I found on the King Arthur site, Yeast – SAF Red Instant – 16 oz. . Would this work in your recipes? Also just as an FYI to everyone I am a huge fan of the parchment paper (no mess!) and use only 1/2 tbsp of salt.
Hi Dan,
You really need to meet Jeff, you’d get along just great!! 😉 Anyone who can simplify this even more is a friend for sure>
The whole wheat loaves are denser than the breads made with all-purpose flour. There isn’t as much gluten development, which means it can’t rise as well. You can try adding vital wheat gluten to the dough and this will help a bit.
The other issue is that your dough is probably over proofing if you are leaving it at room temperature over night. This means that the gas bubbles have expanded all they can and then start to collapse before it even bakes. If you want to shape the dough and let it sit in the pan overnight to bake in the morning, let it rise in the refrigerator. This is what is called a retarded rise and it allows the yeast to create the gases much slower.
The convection oven is great and will create a wonderful crust. Just make sure that the oven isn’t so hot that the crust turns a lovely caramel brown before the inside of the loaf is done baking.
The last piece of advice is to allow the bread to cool before cutting it or it may still be gummy on the inside.
I hope this helps and thank you so much for trying the recipe and for experimenting. We love to hear what people are up to in their kitchens!
Zoë
Hi Paula,
Thanks for your feedback, we are busy working on the new book and continuing to develop gluten free options.
It is our intention to put the weight equivalents in the new book. We will see how the publisher feels about that this time around?
Thanks again! Zoë
Hi Mary,
Thank you for trying our recipes, we are so happy you are enjoying them!
The SAF yeast is excellent and will work really well in our recipes. You can also find bulk yeast at costco for a fraction of the cost of other stores.
Happy Baking! Zoë
Thanks you for such a great book! My daughter has multiple allergies, so artisan bread was unfortunately out of our diet (too risky due to possible cross contamination). But not anymore!
I’m very happy with the result, but I find the crumb still a bit gummy for my taste (only mine, because the kids obviously don’t mind ;-). I’ve read that canadian flour has a higher protein content. Should I try your recipe with unbleached pastry flour?
Any suggestions on how to make your sweet bread with no eggs? Would silken tofu work (I read something like that in Mark Bittman’s book)?
Again, thanks a lot!
Louise: If you want to have a slightly drier result, by all means you can switch to a higher-protein flour (like bread flour) which absorbs more water. Or you can just increase the all-purpose flour by about a quarter-cup. Have you checked your oven temperature? Sometimes the reason for a gummy crumb is a too-cool oven.
About pastry flour– not a good idea, becauase that’s LOW in protein, won’t absorb much water, and will leave you with too-wet dough.
We have sweetened doughs without eggs (“Sweet Provencal Flatbread with Anise Seeds” on page 157), so definitely go ahead with that. It isn’t all that sweet. If you push the sugars much beyond what we have in that recipe, you need to turn down the oven heat… the sugars will burn at 450 F, so try as low as 350 (you need to bake longer of course).
We haven’t tried baking with tofu, please let us know how your experiments turn out, and thanks for your enthusiasm! Jeff
hi again
I have another questain that I hope you can help me with–in your book it says to use 61/2 cups flour with the scoop and level method
I want to use my scale for the flour to see if I get a better dough consistancy than what I have been getting
Do you have the weight of the 6 1/2 cups of flour that I can use instead of using the scoop and level? I really dont like the way my dough turns out the other way
Thanks so much
Lynne
See my post on weighing ouit the ingredients (https://artisanbreadinfive.com/?p=392). Most all-purpose white flours weigh about 4.8 ounces per cup, when measured the scoop and sweep method we specify. That’s just under 2 pounds for 6.5 cups (1 lb 15 1/4 ounces). If you use King Arthur Flour all-purpose, it’s 5.0 ounces per cup, so it’s just over 2 pounds (1 lb 15 1/2 ounces).
2 pounds is going to work though, with either. You can adjust the amount of flour by 2 to 4 ounces to achieve the consistency you want with the flour you’re using. Thanks! Jeff
Could you tell me please, when you specify a rising bucket for the fridge that doesn’t have an air tight lid, do you mean if I have a snap on lid to mine, I shouldn’t close it, but just lay it on the top?
Loving the book and the bread, can’t wait to try more!
Thanks
Kathy
Kathy: You can either lay it on top, or close it but leave it cracked a little on one side. Usually you can close it after a couple of days.
Thanks for the kind words… Jeff
I would like to make the Thanksgiving corn bread but I do not have a cast iron pan. Any suggestions? Thank you, Linda PS All the breads are great. I have given several books to my friends.
Thanks for reminding me… it can be done as a simple free-form loaf right on the baking stone (about the same baking time, or in a loaf pan (longer baking time needed). Either way, it’s done at 425 degrees.
I need to update today’s post that I just fired off!
Thanks, Jeff
Hi–At last, I am happy to report total success and lucious bread. I was having a problem with the crust being too tough, and Jeff replied that it sounded like I did not have enough moisture in the oven. So I tried a lot of things, but my oven seems to vent out the moisture. Today, I used my La Cloche clay cooker–put the cloaked dough on parchment paper on the base to rest and rise, and submerged the bell top in my sink full of water. After about 30 minutes, I put the lid on the cold cooker and put it in the cold oven, and set the temperature for 450. It worked beautifully–took the lid off for the last 10 minutes to finish getting the golden crust. It is amazing and very good. Thanks for the insight. Ramona
I just got your book and have yet to make anything. I’m a little concerned because I live at high altitude (b/t 6000-7000 ft above sea level) and haven’t found anything on adjustments.
Can you tell me how I should adjust your basic recipes for altitude?
Ramona: So glad your bread is turning out the way you like!
Jonah Lisa: Sure, take a look at https://artisanbreadinfive.com/?p=144. Let us know how that works out, we’re always gathering info from high-altitute people– we live at sea level so we can’t test this ourselves. Jeff
Hi there.
I have made two of your wheat bread…the 100% whole wheat and the whole wheat bread that is like Chris Kimball.
I have created these breads more than once and every time I have found that the loaves do not rise well in the oven during baking, leaving me with a very shallow loaf, not nearly big enough for a normal sized sandwhich. Is this the way it should be. My bread loaves do not rise above the loaf pan, if they do it’s barely.
I use a kitchen aid mixer to mix the dough with the dough hook.
Please help me problem solve, I really want these breads to work for me.
Thanks.
Jessica
Hi Jessica,
Thank you for trying the breads!
In an effort to create a book that produced quick and wonderful breads we decided to have people only fill the loaf pans half full. As you have found this doesn’t bake into a big sandwich loaf that we are all used to. When I bake my breads in loaf pans I fill them at least 2/3 full. You will need to increase the rising time and the baking time when you do this. Depending on the size of your loaf this may mean doubling the times. The best rule of thumb for the rising time is to wait until the dough no longer feels chilled and has a bit of spring to it when you touch it. It will never double in size like a traditional recipe.
Another thing to try is adding a few Tablespoons of vital wheat gluten to the flour when you are mixing up the dough. This will help to give the whole wheat flour more structure, which is is lacking from the bran and germ. Vital wheat gluten is found at most groceries in the baking isle or at your coop.
Thank you and Happy Thanksgiving!
Zoë
Hi Jessica, and welcome to the site! Thanks for hanging in there with the bread. So, I have some questions.
What is the crumb of the bread like? Are there reasonable holes? Or is it dense, like it didn’t really rise?
Are you using very coarsely-ground wheat or rye flour, like the kind they sell at food coops? Those can be challenging and result in dense bread.
Is your oven temperature correct? You won’t get much oven “spring” if it’s too cool.
Finally, you can fill the pans higher than we recommend to get better shaped bread for sandwiches. You can fill it nearly 3/4 full (baking time will increase).
And you can consider vital wheat gluten… see our post on this at https://artisanbreadinfive.com/?p=142, plus there’s other advice about whole grains on there. Jeff
Featured your book as #1 in my “top 5 cookbooks”… https://www.simplemakes.com/2008/11/simple-cooking-top-5-cookbooks.html
Wow Lori Ann, thank you! This is terrific. Hope you don’t mind if we put you in our blogroll so more people see it. Jeff
Jeff, Zoe,
thank you for going through the effort of publishing your idea. I truely hope that all your work will be well rewarded.
I have been experimenting a bit with your recipes. Yet, I didn’t manage to get a bread with a decent crust and dense texture consisting of around 60-80 % rye and 20 % wheat. Do you have any idea or maybe a recipe on how to make your method work with a ‘darker’ bread?
And then, let me add a humble suggestion for your next book: more healthy breads! Breads made with less all purpose flour, instead using more whole wheat or rye or spelt flour or with all kinds of seeds from flax over sunflower to pumpkin…
Thank you!
Daniel
I made carmelized onion and herb dinner rolls. I used what I thought were 2 large onions and had about 3/4 cup of the onions left over. I would suggest a volume of chopped onions for those of us who think “big”. Also I carbonized the onions when I cooked the rolls at 450 degrees. Black charcoal! Can you give me suggestions how to make them tasty, but not black. The carmalized onion mixture tasted really good.
I have enjoyed your book a lot, haven’t used the bread machine since reading the book.
Thanks in advance,
Anna in Seattle
Hi,
I’ve been baking my own bread for some time, but recently bought your book so that I can make fresh bread during the week (I work long hours, and just don’t have time to do it the ‘traditional’ way when I get home). So far, the results have been great, but I have a question. Sorry if it’s been answered elsewhere – I looked, but couldn’t find it.
When I make bread, I use my stand mixer, starting with the dry ingredients in the bowl, turning the mixer on and pouring in the water. In the book, you do it the opposite way, adding the dry ingredients to the wet ones. I find it easier and less messy to add water when the mixer is running than to add flour (which seems to go everywhere except in the bowl). Is it OK to do this, or is there a reason why it is better to start with the liquid and then add the dry ingredients? I’ve tried it both ways and didn’t see a difference, except in the amount of clearing up!
All 3 of you, welcome to our site!
Daniel: Great minds think alike. So many people asked us to adapt AB5 to whole grain (and even gluten-free) ingredients that we’re working on a second book, tentatively titled “Healthy Bread in 5 Min/Day.” Meanwhile, I can tell you that whole grains soak up water (you need more), and often need some vital wheat gluten. Check out https://artisanbreadinfive.com/?p=142, and also https://artisanbreadinfive.com/?p=141 to see you to play with this on your own.
Anna, re-burned onions: Check your oven temp 1st; it may be too high. If that’s OK, a good rule is saute the onions very lightly before they go onto the bread. Don’t actually brown them. Finally, consider baking lower in the oven. Lower shelves brown the bottom crust, upper shelves brown the top. You’re getting too much browning of the topping, so that should help.
Sarah: As you’ve seen, it makes no difference whether the liquids or solids go in first. In our 2nd book, we’re doing it the opposite way… Jeff
Does your book specifically discuss high altitude, and what to do? I am between 5000 and 6000 ft. I tried one of the loaves and the dough couldn’t hold it’s structure. It was FLAT. Thanks for your help. I want to purchase the book, but only if I can use it at my altitude. Thanks!
Hi Babz,
Thanks for checking out the recipe! Here is a link to a post I did about high altitude baking. Please check it out and see if this helps your loaves!
https://artisanbreadinfive.com/?p=144
Please let us know if you have any more questions after reading through it. You should also read the comments because some people have left their tips.
Thanks, Zoë
Hi! I just bought your book and am excited to start baking bread. Used to but not for some time. Question: is the steam and stone thing for crispness and crustiness? I have an uncommonly soft palate and when I buy artisan loaves or sourdough, the first thing I have to do is cut off the crusts of the slices I’m going to eat or they cut the roof of my mouth. So…can I skip both the steam & stone and just plop the great-sounding recipes in a loaf pan and have a more “regular” crusted top? That, I could deal with.
Thanks so much! Wow! Bread in 5 minutes and No Machine! Fantastic!!!
Diane: Welcome to the site! Yep, the steam and the stone are mainly for crispness and crustiness, so you can skip them if that’s not what you want. It helps a little bit with crust flavor, in my opinion (more caramelized), but it’s mainly about the texture. Jeff
I am so excited about your book and website. I was just wondering about mid to high altitudes and baking bread this fast I live at 2600 ft ….
Happy Thanksgiving and Aloha,HB
Hi HB (from Hawaii– don’t eat my heart out, it’s 24 degrees here!): check out our post on high-altitude baking at https://artisanbreadinfive.com/?p=144, though I’m thinking that 2600 feet may not be all that significant. Please let us know your expererience. Jeff
Hi – I was wondering whether you would list European equivalents of the ingredients you use in your recipes – in France, I have not (yet) found sour cream, the flour has different type figures, the yeast comes in different packages (f.i. “1 package of yeast” would not help me much in figuring out how much yeast I need), also fresh yeast is not a ready commodity – would appreciate your comment on the practicality of your recipes given a European product environment. Thanks!
Hi Laura, welcome to the site. We’re constantly flattered when French readers try our method, because French bread is legendary.
I’ll do my best to suggest some European equivalencies for things that we specify in the book:
Sour cream: The closest equivalent I can think of is creme fraiche. See how that works out.
For the flour, we tested our recipes with white flour that was about 10% protein by weight, and that’s the important thing to try to match. So look on the label for 3 grams of protein per 30 gram serving. If you use something higher than 11% to 11.5%, you’re going to have to add a little more water or it will be significantly stiffer than what we intended. If you use something with less protein, you’ll need less water.
Don’t worry about fresh yeast, we almost always use dry granulated yeast, and it makes no difference if it’s labeled “instant” or regular. In Britain I’ve used Allinson brand dried active yeast, and it worked beautifully. That probably doesn’t help you across the Channel though, and I haven’t baked in France (waiting for an invitation from a cooking school!). When you find a reasonable dried yeast product, I can tell you that the weight equivalent for 1.5 tablespoons is about 15 grams (but you can decrease that if you like… see https://artisanbreadinfive.com/?p=85. Please let us know how your bread turns out! Jeff
Jeff,
thank you for you feedback on my question regarding darker breads. I cant wait for teaser recipes from your next book!
As for going “darker”, I wonder if you might be able to point out some specifics on how to make your dough from 50% or more rye flour… is there anyway to make it work? I see that my rye flour here in Germany has a protein content of about about 6%, so that indicates I should definitely use less water, right? Sorry, but I couldnt get any further information of the links you posted in your previous answer.
Thank you!
PS: I think 1.5 tablespoons are more around 20-21 grams, it would make sense since dry yeast comes in 10 gram packages over here and that would make 2 packages per batch of dough just like in your recipes.
What do you think of using an electric knife to slice the bread? The hard crust makes it delicious but hard to cut?
Susan
Daniel: Despite your rye’s low protein content, it probably has a lot of bran and will require more water (in general). Without knowing the bran content it’s hard to know for sure. If you want that much rye, you’re going to have to add some vital wheat gluten: https://artisanbreadinfive.com/?p=142
See that works out. Use enough water with the recipe so that the result looks like the consistency of our basic dough.
That sounds fine about the yeast measurement, which you can always decrease anyway: https://artisanbreadinfive.com/?p=85
Jeff
Susan: Your electric knife is certainly worth a try. Please let us know if it works, and if so, what brand you used. I use a good quality manual bread knife…
I just got your book and can’t get enough of trying to get the perfect loaf 😉
But I cannot get the loaf to “sing” or raise much.
I first raise the dough in a bowl covered with cling celophane, then, due to the fridge space restrictions, transfer the dough to another bowl, and put it in the fridge. It keeps raising there. The next day I take an grapefruit-size piece of it, cloak and leave it to raise for a few hours. The dough does not raise. Is it normal? The crust also didn’t brown much, although I did use the broiler pan and the water and the baking stone. Would you have any ideas why it didn’t brown? Nor it crackled and ‘sang’. I would appreciate your comments. Thank you.
I appreciate the link in the blogroll! Hope to recommend Artisan Bread more in the future on my blog. It’s a great book I still use weekly. We just found whole wheat flour so I’ll be experimenting with those recipes soon.