Q&A MISC. Bread Questions
Until we can figure out a more sophisticated way to handle your feedback, your praise and your questions, we hope the following series of Q&A posts will help. Our goal is to get a conversation going about a particular topic in one location. Hoping that it will be easier for you to follow and get the information you need to bake gorgeous bread.
If we haven’t started a thread on the subject you are interested in then leave it here and we can create another post!
Thank you so much for all of the conversation. We enjoy it immensely and are learning so much from you all!
Zoë and Jeff
Amy: I’ve done it both ways, and they both work. In general, I slop it into containers w/o cloaking, but I know the other way works, and arguably, is more convenient. Thanks for getting the word out!
Hi,
I continue to use many of your recipes. I tried the pain d’epi. I made three stalks and they vanished in minutes. The crunch was just great. I’ll be making it again today for friends coming for dinner. The wreath idea is good also.
I would like to make the sticky buns for Christmas morning. Can I prepare them in the pan the night before, then cook them the next morning? If so, how long should they sit out the next morning before baking?
Hi Kathy: Yeah people love those crunchy epis, more of them in our second book.
About buns, you can definitely prepare them the night before. Let them sit at room temp for the usual time. Jeff
Help. I just realized (after measuring into water/yeast/salt, my allpurpose flour, although unbleached, is presifted. Do I add more flour when ready to shape the bread? Darn
Maureen: My guess is that “pre-sifted” doesn’t mean much, because flour settles back again when it sits in the bag during shipping. I’d just go for it, don’t add any more flour. Let us know how it turns out?
Situation: I have brioche dough in the fridge. I have loads of cream cheese. I have gobs of this silly homemade berry pie filling that didn’t set up.
I’m trying to think of how to improvise something using these ingredients. I’m thinking of rolling out the brioche, spreading it with cream cheese and then topping it with the pie filling, which I’d have to thicken somehow. Then I’d braid it or jelly-roll it. Any suggestions or warnings?
Yes, it’s perfect for the pastry braid on page 231. I covered a savory version of this last week here on the blog, so take a look at that too, at https://artisanbreadinfive.com/?p=454. Jeff
oh yeah, I made that beautiful thing(the spinach braid) a couple of days ago…that’s why I’ve got brioche in the fridge. Would you do it just like that, or what would you think of rolling it like the bostock thing on page 193? I was thinking of that for variety since we just had a braid a couple of days ago with the spinach. Or is there a way to make it into raspberry-cream cheese sticks? errr, wait, that sounds hard.
Yeah, the Bostock thing should be perfect. That loose fruit filling may leak all over, but since it’s in a pan, shouldn’t matter.
I’d think twice about those sticks! Sounds hard.
I’m not sure if I did it right, but they turned out looking like cinnamon rolls, except with berry instead of brown. They were delish. It was hard to spread the cream cheese on that tender dough, though, and wondered if you had any tips on that for next time. I softened it but it still pulled and tore the dough unless I was tediously careful.
Hmm. We always say soften it by warming. This sounds lame, but well, maybe soften it some more?
I’d like to try to make bread bowls. Would you suggest any of the recipes in particular for this? Do you have any suggestions for how to make a bread bowl, as I’ve never done it before? Thanks!
I’d use any of our lean doughs (the ones without oil, butter, or eggs). Bake the bowl crusty so it doesn’t get mushy when the soup is added, and let us know how it turns out. I’ve never done this…
Hello Jeff & Zoe,
I live in India and have been looking to buy this book. I have looked in every bookstore but could not find it. I could buy it from Amazon but the shipping costs to India are almost as much as the book. Please please let me know whether this book is available in India and where I can get it.
Any help will be much appreciated. Thanks.
After baking your always perfect boules for three weeks now, I notice that the crust on the bottom is getting too dark – almost burnt. I scrape the stone after every baking, and it has understandably darkened nd stained, but why such dark crust? I even rotate the loaf five minutes before removing from oven to ensure even browning.
omments and thanks
Toby
Hi… welcome to the site. Sorry to say, I don’t think our book is available in India. The only online seller I can find doesn’t carry it. I will check with the publisher and get back to you if they tell me it’s available. Jeff
Toby: Have you changed anything else? I can’t imagine that it’s the stone, that just doesn’t make sense. But you could try taking the loaf off the stone and moving it to a higher shelf about 2/3’s of the way through baking. That’s a bother though.
If this dark bottom crust is actually a dark powdery coating from the stone, maybe your stone could use a good cleaning. Don’t use soap or detergent! My stone says to use a plastic brush and hot water. Then let it dry completely (overnight) before using.
Are you baking on a lower shelf than you were when you started? That will over-brown the bottom relative to the top. Jeff
I have a comment about salt in your recipes and a question. You specify kosher salt in your recipes. This is fine with me, it’s what I generally use in cooking, however it is important to know that kosher salt, being coarser than table salt is not equivalent spoonful by spoonful to table salt, and in fact different brands of kosher salt are not equivalent to each other. This may account for some people here commenting that the amount of salt you specified in some recipe seemed to be too much. According to Cook’s Illustrated “1/4 cup table salt is equivalent to 1/4 cup plus 2 tablespoons Morton’s kosher salt but 1/2 cup Diamond Crystal kosher salt.” Besides the saltiness factor, this can be important in baking as salt slows the activity of yeast.
Regarding my last salt post, I never got to the question! I meant to ask…what brand of kosher salt is the one that your recipe’s measurements are based on?
Comment for Toby. Supposedly, the color of a baking surface can affect its browning properties, darker surfaces browning more, so the darkening of your stones might well explain the effect you’re seeing. I don’t have first hand experience with this, but have read that it is true.
Eric: Here’s our post on salt: https://artisanbreadinfive.com/?p=139
We tested the recipes with Morton Kosher salt. Keep in mind that Zoe and I love salt, and you can decrease from what we used. Feel free to go closer to 1 tablespoon, or even lower.
Baking lore has it that darker colored metal means a darker crust in contact with the metal. I can’t say that I’ve seen that… I get a pale crust wherever my non-stick (dark) loaf pan touches the crust, so I pop it out of the pan for the last third of baking. Jeff
Sprouted flour??? I LOVE your book, but for health reasons am now only making the 100% whole wheat bread. I plan to try using that dough for pizza and bagels too. Love the process and simplicity. My question is do you have a recipe for 100% whole wheat SROUTED Flour?? I would like to try that. Thank you!! denise
I would love to find your pannetone recipe that you mention in one of your articles. Is it available on this site somewhere?
Hi – just got the book – it’s great, but in reading the recipe p 108 – caramelized onion – it doesn’t tell you how to get the onions into the bread. And this is not in the errors section. I can guess at it from other instructions, but it woudl be good to know for sure…
Anna
Denise: We don’t have anything with sprouted flour and haven’t tested that kind of product as of yet. Many more whole grain recipes coming in our second book (not out till 12/09 though). For whole grain tips, check out https://artisanbreadinfive.com/?p=142.
Kelly: The pannetone recipe isn’t on the site, but it’s in our book on page 201 https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0312362919?ie=UTF8&tag=arbrinfimiada-20&linkCode=as2&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=0312362919.
Anna: Have a look at page 109, step 5. You put about a tablespoon of the onion mixture into the cross-pattern you cut into the rested rolls. It’s just a topping, not intended to be incorporated into the dough. Jeff
Hello, I read your article in Mother Earth News and have a batch of the cinnamon pecan rolls in the oven as I write!! Just wondering what it will cost me to purchase a book and have you deliver it to New Zealand for my friend?
Thanks for the awesome-ness!!
Hi Carrie– we don’t sell or ship the books ourselves, we leave that to the publisher (Thomas Dunne Books/St. Martin’s Press). They’ve put the book on many of the online sellers and one in New Zealand is https://www.thenile.co.nz/books/Jeff-Hertzberg-Zoe-Franco/Artisan-Bread-In-Five-Minutes-A-Day-The-Discovery-That-Revolutionizes-Home-Baking/9780312362911/. I’m not familiar with this particular seller, just found it on-line with a Google search.
Thanks for trying the bread!
re: Jeff’s response: Maureen: My guess is that “pre-sifted” doesn’t mean much, because flour settles back again when it sits in the bag during shipping. I’d just go for it, don’t add any more flour. Let us know how it turns out? OK, I don’t know if it made a difference as my bread looked pretty much the same. Mine don’t get very high (I did the drop into the flour bin this time). They tasted fine but this time were even more difficult to cut. We tried the electric knife which got to hot, several serrated knifes and even a boning knife. I tried to just tear one loaf into pieces. My son in law says I must be doing something wrong. Thoughts please.
If the crusts are hard, it suggests the steam isn’t doing it’s thing in the oven, that it’s escaping. Steam make for a thin crispy crust (rather than a hard thick crust). Instead of the broiler tray (or in addition to it) try spraying the oven with water, every 30 seconds three times.
Another option is to do these in a non-stick loaf pan (grease it). Then they’ll be as high as you like (fill as high as you like).
Do you have the book? Seen the videos?
How do I upload photos from my flickr site and imbed in a comment? I have been baking from ABin5 for weeks now and have tried many of the recipes and incorporated some of my own variations and additions – have a couple of pics of holiday wreath, deli rye loaf and some crusty rolls I made from the light wheat dough and would like to share them but cannot get the link to imbed in the my comment. Any clues anyone? Thanks
All you can do is to post the link itself in these text fields, give that a shot. We don’t have the technical capacity to let people actually post the pictures here.
Jeff,
Thanks for the speedy response – I actually did not mean I wanted to post the pics, but rather the link(s) -when I cut and paste the URL from Flickr it does not paste to the ABin5 comments as a link, but just as typing not as a link which means to follow it one would have to retype the entire thing. If any of the ABin5 bloggers know the secret to posting a flickr link I would appreciate the info. I have oatmeal bread dough in frig and will bake a loaf tomorrow or maybe Monday since I baked rye today – I added some flax meal and some VWG to the recipe and will let you know how it turns out – the final mixture seemed pretty wet – I decided to wait before adding additional flour as I thought the various brans/meals would absorb some liquid during its frig rest. I keep trying to make my bread more and more nutritious since we are eating so much of it! I keep giving bread to friends so I can bake more! Hmmm, when exactly does a “passion” become an addiction?
Amy, I think I know the problem. It doesn’t appear as an active link until we approve the comment. It never appears as a link in your interface. Go ahead and post it and let’s see what happens.
Good thought about the absorbtion question with rough grains, see what happens.
If you think you’re obsessed with this stuff…
Here’s a couple of pics of loaves I made recently: holiday wreath using light wheat and the deli rye (made with 13 day old dough that used 1 cup of white wheat[KAF] in recipe since I ran out of AP- both taken with cell phone camera so quality is less than optimal – my baking skills are better than my photography skills – it’s all great fun, though. I am still trying to achieve that thin crispy crust – I am getting the crispy, but the crust is still a little thick and chewy – I will try your suggestion of spraying water in oven q30 sec x3 and see what happens. I think bagels and bialys on also on my agenda for this week.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/akbakes/3124531908/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/akbakes/3142445510/in/photostream/
Re: Challah receipe. For next printing, please specify whether 1 1/2 T of Kosher salt, or 1 1/2 T of table salt. Recipe only states “salt”, so I used kosher, and challah comes out superbly. However, since your book is so clear in all other aspects, though you might like to clarify for next printing.
AmyK: Glad the links worked this time; your pix look great! Let us know how the crust shapes up. Another thing to try might be to plastic-wrap while the loaves are resting, keeps them from drying. Isn’t usually a prob with our very-wet dough but old-style recipes do this and it might be worth a try. Dust w/flour so the wrap doesn’t stick.
Toby: It’s kosher salt (as specified in the Master Recipe on page 26, but not everywhere else). We tested with Morton Kosher Salt; have a look at our salt page: https://artisanbreadinfive.com/?p=139
can you use a stand mixer with a hook for this recipe?
I’ve recently gotten your book and now have made several loaves out of the boule recipe ranging from the day after the dough was made to several days later. In all cases, the dough had been rather flat/blobby looking, in other words I could not form it into a nice round boule, and when I made a baguette it came out looking very much like a ciabatta in its flatness. Should I be adding extra flour? I just watched the youtube video demo and it looks like you actually dip it in a generous amount of flour before forming it which seemed to add quite a bit more flour…I did not get this impression from the book itself though…how much more flour needs to be added during the “cloaking” process in order to have a formable mass of dough? It tastes delicious but just does not look very nice and I can’t imagine making something like a bagel…would never hold its shape.
Lynn: The stand mixer is great but we prefer the “paddle” over the hook.
Andi: You need to be generous with the flour… do it as we do in the video and see what you think. If that doesn’t work, yes, add a little more flour. Are you using unbleached all-purpose? Bleached has less protein and gives you a too-wet dough.
You may just need to do a little more “cloaking.” We were wary about people over-handling the dough but sometimes users aren’t quite doing it enough… Jeff
Again re: hard crusts. Do you mean I should be opening the oven every 30 seconds to spray? Not sure if you mean 3 sprays every 30 seconds or what.
(If the crusts are hard, it suggests the steam isn’t doing it’s thing in the oven, that it’s escaping. Steam make for a thin crispy crust (rather than a hard thick crust). Instead of the broiler tray (or in addition to it) try spraying the oven with water, every 30 seconds three times.) I do have the book but am still struggling to get higher breads and less hard crusts. Thanks.
Jeff, how would sugar affect the outcome of the recipe. I am planning on cutting back on the amount of salt for my tastes. The commercial sandwich bread I have been buying is a whole grain with a little honey. But, the French and Italian loaves I had been buying at the grocery store, weren’t noticeably salty, either.
I will decrease the salt to less than a tablespoon. If I add one cup of whole wheat flour, (and decreased the unbleached white flour by one cup), and a tablespoon of honey, do you think it would adversely affect the bread?
WOW! I’ve made bread for a long time, but this is the easiest concept I have ever seen. As a working gal, it is nice to see I might be able to make a loaf for dinner . . .
Here is my question: I read that the flavor of the dough develops over time, with the last loaf’s flavor more complex than the first. I also read that I can make a new batch of dough in the same container as the old one, incorporating some of the old dough from the edges of the container to improve the flavor ‘right off the bat”. Can I bump that volume up a bit? If I leave, say, a cup of dough in the bottom of the container, and make the new stuff by mixing into the old, will the flavor be boosted that way as long as I incorporate all the old dough?
I wonder b/c I loved the look of my first loaf (wow, what a beautiful crust, we gave it a 9 out of 10, not bad for a first effort!) but the flavor was . . . .well, not all that great. The TEXTURE (crumb) was just fine, but the flavor was a bit plain. Maybe a 6 on our 10 point scale. Wondering what I might do to boost that up a bit. I realize that I am just starting to experiment w/ this, so I may be jumping the gun asking and not just trying some more, but thought I’d take you all up on the comment section. Thanks so much!
Thanks so much!
Maureen: Yes, I did mean to open the oven every 30 sec or so and spray more water for a total of three spraying sessions. I does sound like the steam is escaping. Also see my response to Toni.
Toni: Sugar is a tenderizer, so expect that (even a couple of tablespoons will tenderize). The amount of whole grain you are considering shouldn’t change the recipe much (may need a little more water to maintain consistency). Jeff
Susan: It’s called pate fermentee, and yes, you can use a cup or even two, of old dough in your new batch. Let us know if that jump-starts the flavor to your liking. Jeff
Well, I just had my first “not so great result”. Baked a loaf of oatmeal bread(p94) from dough that I referenced in my comment here on 12/27. I had added 1/4 c flax meal and 4 TBLSP VWG to the recipe and although the dough was very wet after mixing it was workable today (2 days in frig) although a tad sticky. Used 1 1/2 lbs dough and let rest a little longer (close to 2 hrs). Baked at 350 in the loaf pan for 50 min.(internal temp of 200). Smelled great but did not get much oven spring and final loaf was only 2 1/2 in. high in center and had a very dense moist crumb – actually it was pretty gummy. I was disappointed since it had a wonderful flavor (quite sweet)and the lovely aroma is still lingering in my kitchen. I will try to salvage it by toasting thin slices for breakfast or cubing it and drying in oven to use for bread pudding. I would like to rescue the rest of the unbaked dough – should I work more flour into it? If so, then what, does it rest again at rm temp or go back in frig right away? I have tried 8 different recipes from ABin5 so far and this was the first poor result, so it probably was my recipe tinkering and the too wet dough that did it. Maybe by the time the new book is out I will have tried them all!
Happy Hanukkah and Happy New Year –
Sounds like you should work more flour into the dough until it reaches the “usual” consistency for our stuff. I think it should be completely salvagable– just let it rest on the counter at rm temp for 2 hours after working in the extra flour.
The confusing thing to me about this story is that you tinkered by adding solids to the mix that absorb water– should have made it drier, not wetter. Have you had success with the oatmeal recipe before? VWG and flax absorb water so I’m confused. Did you also increase the liquids? Jeff
I made one batch of the standard bread so far. My first loaf was dense. My other two loaves were less dense because I let them “rest” for almost two hours. How do I go about getting more air bubbles incorporated into the loaf and making a lighter loaf? Thank you ~
Allison: You’re on the right track… have a look at our post on exactly this subject: https://artisanbreadinfive.com/?p=141
The 40 minute rest time was a compromise– we knew that beginning bakers would value speed, but we also knew that some people would want more rise. There are a few other things to try also… at that post above.
Also, it will loosen up as the dough ages; keep the batch for at least a week and see what you think.
No – didn’t increase the liquid – I did use skim milk instead of whole milk since that is what I had on hand (could this have made a difference?) – the original mixture almost poured out of the mixer bowl to my dough container (FYI, it is the first time I mixed using mixer – KA Artisan – and I did use the hook not the paddle – but only mixed did not knead). Today the consistency from frig container was sticky but it had definitely absorbed a lot of liquid and had lots of lacy air spaces throughout.