Q&A MISC. Bread Questions
Until we can figure out a more sophisticated way to handle your feedback, your praise and your questions, we hope the following series of Q&A posts will help. Our goal is to get a conversation going about a particular topic in one location. Hoping that it will be easier for you to follow and get the information you need to bake gorgeous bread.
If we haven’t started a thread on the subject you are interested in then leave it here and we can create another post!
Thank you so much for all of the conversation. We enjoy it immensely and are learning so much from you all!
Zoë and Jeff
Hi Jeff and Zoe,
Thanks for your comments about the forcaccia bread. I’ll stick with the light whole wheat for now–I know how that tastes so far.
I’m trying to figure out if I can parbake the forcaccia bread base ahead of time, freeze it, then add the olive oil and spices when I finish baking it. I just found out a big group of people are camping near the Farmers Market and will probably want easy things like this for dinner. The forcaccia is great by itself, or a good pizza base.
Gosh, I have several buckets going at once! I might have to get larger buckets, take out fridge shelves, and make double batches of some! YUM!
THANKS!
Thanks.
Judy: Parbaking should work— bake until set and then store– freeze, or even refrigerate if it’s short-term. Jeff
I have made 2 batches of your dough ( 1 regular and 1 brioche) while waiting for my book to come from Amazon.com. So I don’t have all the specific info that I need. But so far all the stuff I have made has turned out well, especially the blueberry cherry tarts!
I am ready to make my next batch of white bread. How long does the bread need to chill? I did it overnight last time but what is the shortest chilling time?
Also the bread from that first batch was very dense and I would like this next batch to be more open. What can I do to achieve that?
Thanks for your help- once I get the book I’m sure that these basic questions will be answered.
Julie
Julie: Dough’s easier to work with if it chills at least for a couple of hours– but it’s not an absolute requirement. And the flavor will develop if you wait at least a few days into the batch. Jeff
I’ve been working through your book all summer but there’s one bread I’ve always enjoyed and that’s Vietnamese baguettes.
As far as I understand it they usually contain rice flour in addition to AP. Do you think keeping the proportions somewhat like the light whole wheat recipe would work? I’d love to make my own banh-mi.
The book is wonderful and the bread has become a staple in my home. Thanks!
Andrew: I’m guessing you could use up to about a cup of rice flour as a substitute for unbleached AP in our basic recipe. Maybe start with a half-cup. Jeff
I seem to be having a bit of an issue with my brioche dough. While I can get it to work in my recipes, I’m just wondering if the texture is right. The dough doesn’t seem to have much gluten, and it seems break apart easily instead of stretching like the other doughs. I’m not sure if this is normal or not, but I would think more along the lines of not.
I have tried both weighing my flour (not sure about the accuracy of my scale though), as well as the scoop and sweep method. Any ideas? Thanks 🙂
Hi MommaBlogger,
What you are describing sounds just about right. Because of all the butter in the dough it does not have quite the same gluten formation as some of the other doughs. It should be very easy to work with, but will just behave differently.
When you say that it breaks apart, is that just when you are pulling it out of the bucket, or when you are working with the dough?
Thanks, Zoë
It tends to break apart more when I’m pulling it out of the container, but also it’s more likely to tear when I’m trying to roll it out.
At least I know I’m not messing it up though 🙂 I kept thinking it should be more gluten-y, but it sounds like it’s just right. It works perfect still for those Havarti Ham Brioche things 🙂
Hi Mommablogger,
When you mix it up is it quite loose? When you weighed it did you use 37 1/2 ounces of unbleached all-purpose? It will be stiffer than the master recipe, but still should have some stretch, especially once it has warmed a little. As long as it is not too frustrating and it tastes good I bet it is just right!
Thanks, Zoë
Hi! I found your ‘master’ recipe online and have quickly become addicted. But I’ve a problem with it. When I first mix up the dough, it rises & I put it in the fridge, it’s a lovely springy texture. I shape loaves and they stay shaped as they rest, and they rise in the oven into the most delicious bread in the world.
But after a few days, the dough starts to deflate and become gooey. Now when I shape a loaf it sort of droops sideways on the board as it rests, making a very flat shape (and by the way harder to transfer to the oven). Worse, when I bake it it doesn’t rise properly and the crumb is heavy and doughy. The problem gets worse the longer I leave it – but I’ve never gone as long as 2 weeks, which is supposed to be OK. I’ve tried ‘cloaking’ more, but this doesn’t really solve the shape problem and doesn’t make any difference to the texture problem.
I should add that I’m in the UK and found measuring things in cups far too much faff. I’ve been using the following equivalents, which seemed to be just right but perhaps the ratios are slightly wrong, and this is contributing to the problem?
1 kg plain flour
750 ml water
4 teaspoons yeast, salt
Any help gratefully received!
Mark
By the way when I said ‘seemed to be just right’ I meant in ratios – so far as I could tell it was close to 10% less than the ‘original’ recipe for each ingredient.
Also sorry if this question has already arisen – I searched for it but this page is now very long and perhaps I missed it!
Hi Mark,
According to my calculations you’re using about 10% more of all the ingredients except for the yeast. Here are the weights and measures I usually use:
2 pounds unbleached all-purpose flour = 908 grams
24 ounces water = 710 ml
4 1/2 teaspoons yeast
The issue could also be with the type of flour you are using. I think their is a range in protein content in plain flour, just as there is with our unbleached all-purpose. is the flour unbleached? Does it indicate what the protein content is? If you have a lower protein content your dough will be too wet and cause what you are describing. You can compensate for this by adding more flour, or by adding a portion of bread flour or hard flour.
Did you have a chance to view our video? This may give you an idea of what the dough is supposed to look like after it is mixed up and you can compare to what you are getting. https://us.macmillan.com/BookCustomPage.aspx?isbn=9780312362911&m_type=2&m_contentid=119255#video
Let me know if any of this helps! Thank you for trying the recipe.
Zoë
Thanks for the speedy reply! I had seen the video, and I’d say my dough is pretty similar – for the first day or two before it starts to deflate. If anything a little more risen and open. Thanks for the note about the weights – I’ll try a bit more yeast and salt.
Unfortunately I’m not sure about the flour since I use whatever ‘plain flour’ I happen to have, which may be from one of a couple of local supermarkets or a nearby corner shop … they all look the same but I haven’t checked the protein content before. My shelf currently contains Sainsbury’s plain flour, with a protein content of 10.2g per 100g. It certainly doesn’t say it’s bleached – the ‘Ingredients’ panel just says ‘Wheat flour’ and doesn’t mention any bleaching agent. I assume that means it isn’t, but perhaps I’m being naive?
BAGELS! I have made most of your bread recipes with smashing success. Tried the bagel recipe, though, and what I got were absolutely delicious rolls — mini version of the boule more less — but definitely not the dense, chewy bagel I was looking for. I did make one mistake –forgot the sugar in the boiling water. Could that have made the difference? And I did use bread flour. We are in a rural area, our bagels from New York had run out, and I was feeling really excited that we could create our own supply.
and on a completely different subject, what is the protein content of the flour in your basic recipe? I’d like to know so that when I have to use a flour with more or less protein I can adjust the water. I will be baking bread on a visit to London soon.
Hi Roz,
In most cases we tell people to allow their loaves to rest longer before baking to achieve an open, light interior crumb, but I might suggest the opposite for you. If you want that dense interior, you may want to cut down on the resting time, especially if your dough is fresh and the kitchen is quite warm.
The protein content is between 10-11% on average for unbleached all-purpose flour. You will most certainly encounter “plain” flour while you are in London. I can’t wait to hear how it compares. Please let us know!
Thanks, Zoë
Aha! It turns out (https://www.food.gov.uk/multimedia/pdfs/breadflourguide.pdf) that flour bleaching agents are illegal in the UK. The Food Standards Agency’s guidance on this says that the term ‘unbleached’ flour should therefore be avoided since all flour is unbleached!
Hi Mark,
Thank you for letting me know. I think I need a trip to England to do some further research! 😉
Zoë
I’m insanely addicted to your book and would like to make canapes on tiny olive bread slices. Would it be possible, at the stage where you roll the olive bread jellyroll style, to just stretch it a bit to a baguette shape, let it rest and bake it off like that?
Hi Marina,
Yes, your idea is brilliant and should work beautifully. Keep in mind that if you use a lot of olives rolled into the dough it will create a swirl and in some places a gap in the dough. This is rarely an issue, but if you are trying to use the bread for canapes you may want a more uniform surface?
Enjoy! Zoë
I have a suggestion (more like a request). Do you think you could put a photo album on the website with pictures of the different recipes in ABin5? I would love if the book had more pictures; some of the recipes are hard to visualize. Being able to see the end results would help me decide what to try next, and prevent me from accidentally skipping over some really good recipes
Or to make it easier, you could create an index of the recipes online, and let your readers submit their own pictures, with a section for their own creations. As long as the pictures are organized by recipe so it doesn’t become a mess.
Evelyn: Great suggestions, but I think the relative primitive-ness of our website makes this challenging– we’ll look into it though. Jeff
Thanks for your prompt response. I still don’t know how you two manage to be so incredibly responsive.
I tend to let the dough rest for a long time, and do the overnight rise too. The dough is too hard for me to handle when it’s fresh. But I will try it for the bagels.
And I can’t wait to get my hands on the seccond book.
p.s. I am a grandmother, a still-working full-time professional, never before interested in bread making. I had a late epiphany with pastry dough, finally mastering it after years — decades — of really bad results. Your book has been another epiphany, and I have evangelized it to many friends.
Thanks.
Roz: Thanks for the kind words! Jeff
I am having a hard time finding a 10 qt bucket. I have two 4 qts and three 8 qts and went online to find the 5 or 10 and was only able to find even numbers. The next one up is 12 qts.
Does this mean I can not double in my 8 qt and that my 4 qt is too small for singles?
Christi: My “double” bucket is closer to 8 or 9 quarts, see if you can find one of those. It’s a Tupperware. Try the 4 qt as well, for your single batches.
Mark: Let us know…
Lisa, about KAF AP, check out https://artisanbreadinfive.com/?p=140, we generally go the other way (increasing the water) or else the yield goes down. Jeff
You certainly do; look forward to seeing you here! 🙂
Sounds like the flour I’m using has the right kind of protein content, so I’ll try sticking to your weight measurements and see if that fixes the problem. Thanks again!
Hi Guys,
I just got this book and am going to make my first batch of dough tonight. I would like some clarification about using King Arthur Flour. It says in the ingredients that the all-purpose has a higher protein content. So do you treat it like bread flour and omit 1/4 c. per 6 cups?
Thanks a lot,
Lisa
Just a few months ago I decided to tackle the “art of bread baking”. I love to cook and will try almost anything but bread has always intimidated me. After several unsuccessful attempts at starters and proofs, I found your book and was so excited. I have been through 2 batches of the basic dough and seem to keep having the same problem. The bread bakes beautifully with a crisp, crunchy out layer but the inside is very dense with small pockets that look undercooked. The end pieces have that holey, rustic texture but the middle never seems to get there no matter how long I cook it.
Someone commented to me a couple of weeks ago, “Oh, you live in Florida, you’ll never be able to make a good loaf of bread”. Could the humidity be the issue? I’m almost ready to give up so I’m just hoping you have a solution.
Thank you.
Kathy: Humidity makes it difficult to get a good crisp crust, but your problem is with the inside. I think you’ll find that a longer resting time will make it more to your liking. Rather than 40 minutes, try 60 minutes, or even 90. It may spread sideways a bit but see what you think. For the longer rests, probably should loosely cover with platic wrap so it doesn’t try out and give you a tough crust. Also see our other post on this subject for other ideas: https://artisanbreadinfive.com/?p=141. And don’t overhandle the doughs, shape them as quickly as you can so as not to knock the air out of them– this is different from traditional methods.
Plus– test your oven, it may be too cool, an inexpensive thermometer may reveal the problem. The one on amazon is inexpensive and does the job: https://www.amazon.com/Taylor-Gourmet-Thermometer-Stainless-Steel%252fCopper/dp/B000HB5NA4?&camp=212361&linkCode=wey&tag=arbrinfimiada-20&creative=380725
Jeff
I’m planning on making the Prosciutto and Olive Oil Flatbread this afternoon but have a question. It doesn’t mention anything about a cornstarch wash in the ingredients but then on p. 147 in step 4 it mentions the wash — just wanted to make sure that is correct?
Thanks — and I adore the book! I was once fearful of yeast, but no more!
Susannah: Skip the cornstarch wash and brush a little olive oil on top, more in keeping with this style of bread. Jeff
Hi there,
We absolutely LOVE your bread recipes. But, we have a problem. Our loaves turn out awesome if we bake it before it’s been refridgerated. But, if we refridgerate the dough and then try to bake it then the loaves turn out really desnse. Any suggestions?
Rachel
Rachel: Guessing that you will find that a longer resting time with cold dough will make it more to your liking. Rather than 40 minutes, try 60 minutes, or even 90. It may spread sideways a bit but see what you think. For the longer rests, probably should loosely cover with platic wrap so it doesn’t try out and give you a tough crust. Also see our other post on this subject for other ideas: https://artisanbreadinfive.com/?p=141. And don’t overhandle the doughs, shape them as quickly as you can so as not to knock the air out of them– this is different from traditional methods.
Plus– test your oven, it may be too cool, an inexpensive thermometer may reveal the problem. The one on amazon is inexpensive and does the job: https://www.amazon.com/Taylor-Gourmet-Thermometer-Stainless-Steel%252fCopper/dp/B000HB5NA4?&camp=212361&linkCode=wey&tag=arbrinfimiada-20&creative=380725
Jeff
Hi Zoe and Jeff,
I finally finished a spreadsheet of all the doughs and most of the recipes in the book (I only will use the non-meat ones). If you want me to send you a copy for review, let me know. I know some people have been asking for it.
Also, I tried subscribing to updates on your website, but I don’t think I am getting them. I’m glad I logged onto Facebook today, so I could see Zoe’s comments about grilled flatbread (without a stone or pie pan!!! 🙂 )
I clicked on the “subscribe” button. Did I do something wrong?
oh, the other day, someone suggested I enter some of my breads in the County Fair for judging. I never thought that would happen–and in Appalachia!
Judy: For now we don’t have a way to display a spreadsheet in this website…
Then, about the subscription to RSS, you have to click on the “Subscribe” link from our homepage, but there are two more steps. You need to click on “Subscribe to this feed” when the page loads. Then, your browser will ask you to confirm that you want to add this feed to your Favorites Center (at least, that’s what it’s called in Internet Explorer). Confirm by clicking on “Subscribe.”
Good luck at the County Fair! Jeff
I just started to bake some of the bread and it is absolutely delicious and so easy! Thank you!
My entire family loves this kind of bread and as soon as it is cooled down, it is gone! I was wondering whether I can bake 2 loaves at the same time? Do I have to adjust the baking time? Thanks for your help!
Hi Danielle,
I bake 2 loaves at a time without changing anything at all. As long as you have enough room on the stone you will be all set as is.
Enjoy all the bread! Zoë
any ideas on what to use as a non-plastic (i.e. glass, glazed ceramic, stainless steel) dough container?
Sarah: I’ve used containers made from all those materials and they work fine. Including a stainless steel pot with its lid.
Cover them with a sheet of plastic wrap, or, if they have some not perfectly-sealed lid, use that. Other than a screw-top, you should be fine– the others all let a little air out. Jeff
Hi Jeff,
Thanks so much, I am now subscribed to the feed! I figured out that I had to open my Yahoo page FIRST. Because it kept subscribing me by taking me to the Yahoo page, but didn’t keep it. When I logged on to Yahoo, that’s when it kept it for me.
Any time you want the spreadsheet, fine. It’s large, though! But I can see a pattern. Most of the flatbreads will use the same 4-5 doughs. The enriched doughs will make a number of recipes.
Questions, questions–I’m thinking of making Laura’s marmalade. I just got a new microplane zester (a new toy!) and would like to zest using that. It’s quick. But the recipe says to use a peeler and then chop coarsely. Would the microplane/fine zesting be ok?
Also, could I bake the master dough in a loaf pan to make a soft sourdough-like loaf?
THANKS!
Hi Jeff,
I just got back from the store and stood in front of the oranges for awhile, wondering if I should get the regular navels or the large navel oranges. Neither the recipe, nor the Sure-Jel Package, says.
Would it be possible to ask Laura what she uses? Also, I plan to try the low sugar one. Has she tried that? I’d like to make it more diabetic-friendly, but don’t want to put all that effort into something that might be a flop.
THANKS!!!
Judy
Hi Jeff, sorry to be writing so much on the marmalade. please forget about that. I called Sure Jell, and it’s too much work for someone who has never canned. I’ll try a freezer jam, though I don’t know what I’ll do with all that jam!
Judy: If you change the sugar level, the consistency will change in that jam, but you can experiment. If it doesn’t set, you can always boil it down some. And you can definitely use that Master dough in a loaf pan– directions are in the book, in chapter five.
Geoff: People have had very good results with Maltex, yes, so try that.
Doesn’t make a difference (to us) if the powder is diastatic or non-diastatic, doesn’t seem to matter in stored dough. Jeff
I contacted King Arthur Flour to try to find malted wheat flakes for the English Granary Bread . They said it is no longer available to them. Any ideas as to a substitute. (They suggested Maltex cereal). Also, for the malt powder, is it diastatic or non-diastatic?
thanks
Hi. I just baked my second loaf of your basic read recipe. In order to get a 9″ x 3″ loaf, I had to let it rise for 3 hours versus the 40 minutes you describe. Otherwise, I followed the recipe exactly. My yeast is new. What am I doing wrong? Thanks. Marilee
Marilee: Some readers have preferred longer rest times, especially for large loaves. For your loaf pan, I’m guessing that it took close to 2 pounds, not the 1 pound we specify in the basic 40-minute rest recipe. I bet you’d be OK with 1.5 hours. Is there any chance that your refrigerator (or kitchen) are very cold? See these alternatives to getting a full rise: https://artisanbreadinfive.com/?p=141
But no, I don’t think you’re doing anything wrong. Smaller loaf will take a shorter rest time, if you’re pressed and want a loaf more quickly. Flatbreads and baguettes are the fastest (zero rest time for flats, 20 minutes for baguettes). Jeff
Good Morning! I have just received your book this week and already love it, my family is loving it as well. One question please…Do you have a dough recipie for Portugese Sweet bread that will hold in the refridge as well? Thank you for your time. I look forward to checking out all your other recipies. Thanks again.
Hi Arlene,
We don’t have one for Portuguese sweet bread, but I’ve had it and love it. I think it is a marvelous idea and will look into it!
Thanks, Zoë
Purchased your book 3 weeks ago and have made three batches of dough – 1 master and 2 brioche. My picky son-in-law thinks the bread is heavenly and can’t wait for the next batch.
For the brioche, I followed the recipe exactly the first time with great results. It makes a great cinnamon bread by rolling out, brushing with melted butter, topping with a combo of Splenda & cinnamon. Rollup and bake in a bread pan – wonderful!. The second time I tried the brioche, I tried substituting Splenda and water for the honey. This did not work very well. Do you have a suggestion for a low carb substitution for the honey in the enriched breads?
BTW – Our daughter is feeling very left out since she highly allergic to wheat and hasn’t been able to try the bread. She thinks the new book sounds awsome!
Hi Mary,
I’m so glad you are baking so much and enjoying all of the bread.
I’ve never baked with Splenda or any of the low carb sweeteners. I think this is a very intriguing concept and will do a bit of research to see what I can find out.
I’ve just spent the last week baking dozens of loaves of gluten-free breads from our new book and I’m incredibly excited about them. I think your daughter will be pleased!
Thanks, Zoë
Hi, I love your book! I am wondering what happens to dough that has been in the refrigerator for over 20 days… is it safe to bake? Can it be used in combination with fresh dough… or does it just need to be discarded? The dough in question is a the basic master recipe.. and is in a tupperware container.
Thanks!
Joelle
Joelle: So long as there’s not mold (light or dark patches on the dough surface, whether they’re “hairy” or not), it’s safe to eat, but the question is whether it will make a good loaf. Often, these are too dense; the residual air in the dough has mostly dissipated by this time. Pour off the dark liquid (not a sign of mold) and dust with lots of flour. It will work better as flatbread or other low-rising loaf.
Or you can use it as “pate fermentee”, pre-fermented dough that jump-starts the sour flavor in your next batch. Use a cup or two in the next batch, everything else stays the same. The new yeast will give it a nice rise. Jeff
Jeff – thanks for your speedy response. I’ll try the increased rising time for a bigger loaf. I’m hoping to bake my way through your book. Marilee
Thanks for the speedy response, Jeff!
Can you advise which type of yeast works best– standard “active dry” or “quick-rise”? What type of results can be expected with either one?
I’m a novice to the kitchen and love your book!
Thanks for your help.
Lisa: For our long-stored stuff, it doesn’t matter which yeast you use. It will rise within the 2-hour period.
Stanley: No, you can have “white” flour that’s unbleached. Protein content should be 3 or 4 grams per 30 gram serving. Mix it up, and see if the consistency matches that in our videos https://artisanbreadinfive.com/?page_id=63. If your result is too wet or dry, just adjust the water till it looks like what we get on-screen. Thanks! Jeff
I was so excited to buy your book and have read it back to front many times – but so far no bread making! Believe it or not, I cannot find unbleached white flour! I live in Manitoba, Canada. Perhaps the labeling is different? I can find all kinds of white flour but cannot find anywhere on the labels where it says it is unbleached or bleached. One person I asked said it must all be bleached because it’s white flour, right? Perhaps there is some other hint(s) that I could use to read the labels to find the unbleached white flour? Or maybe you know the store(s) that carry this type of flour in Manitoba? I can hardly wait to get some bread made! I dream about finally making the wheatstalk bread! Thanks for your help!
I purchased your 1st book about 7 months ago and before I was able to try any bread, I found out I have gluten intolerance. Does your new book have quite a few gluten free recipes? Do you have any tips for me? I have not been able to make a very good gluten free loaf yet.
Hi Lisa,
There are about 12 recipes in the gluten-free chapter. But you can use those doughs for a number of other recipes throughout the book. They are like the master, many uses out of one bucket. I am loving the gluten-free breads and have been told by my family that they are some of the best breads I’ve ever baked. I trust them, they are rarely generous with the compliments unless they really like something. 😉
I think you will really enjoy them! Zoë
Thanks for the quick reply on types of yeast, Jeff. Any truth to what I read about active dry having better flavor than quick-rise? My dough is stored about one week.
Also, is bake time altered for two loaves in oven at once?
Thanks again,
Lisa
In theory, there COULD be something to it, but in the book we say it makes no difference with our method (and I’m sticking with that). In general, the old adage is “slow rise for best flavor.” If I really wanted to follow that through, I’d tell you to:
1. Use cold water, not lukewarm
2. Use less yeast https://artisanbreadinfive.com/?p=85
3. Use active-dry not quick-rise (I always use active-dry)
If you make all those changes, it can take 20 hours to rise the batch rather than 2 hours.
Again, in theory, it’s the gradual, slow build-up of the products of yeast fermentation that give the nice flavor.
In theory. But I think long-storage makes all of this irrelevant after Day Two (but not for Day 0 or Day 1). And if we’d told people to use cold water and little yeast from the get-go, I think we’d have lost a lot of new bakers to the hobby. Once you catch on, people tend to experiment, and this is a great area to experiment in– see if you like very slow-risen batches better. But be patient with the initial room-temperature rise. And use whichever yeast you like. Jeff
WOW!! We live on top of a NC mountain–at 5000 feet. Baking anything is a problem, and bread does not do well. HOWEVER—my FIRST loaf of your bread was perfect. THANK YOU!!!
Kitty: I’m so glad it worked well. Interestingly, some people have had trouble at 5000 ft, and felt that these tips were worthwhile, that we posted at https://artisanbreadinfive.com/?p=144.
But maybe I shouldn’t argue with success? Jeff
Hi Jeff and Zoe,
I just read your posting about baking a 5lb loaf, multiplying by 2 1/2times. So, if my math is correct, I should get at least a 15 qt bucket and lid? I’ll try to get that from a local bakery or restaurant.
Also, I find I have a problem with burnt cornmeal when baking multiple batches. I liberally place cornmeal on the peels, and it goes onto the stones. When I add the next batch, I am putting it on top of cornmeal that became burnt during the baking of the first batch.
How do you deal with burnt cornmeal when you do multiple batches? I tried pushing the cornmeal to the side with a silicone brush, and melted the brush. Do you push it aside with a baker’s knife? I am timid when working with 2 super-hot stones and oven! Thanks so much!!
Hi Judy,
I’m not sure which post you are referring to when we baked a 5lb loaf? We often bake a full batch as a single loaf for book signings and tastings, but I’m not sure they have ever exceeded 4 lbs. It is quite possible that Jeff has worked some magic that I’m not aware of??? 😉 Remind me of the post.
You may want to try baking on parchment if you are going to be baking that much bread. You rest the loaf on the parchment and then slip the whole thing into the oven. Remove the parchment about 10 minutes before the loaf is done baking to crisp up the bottom crust. It eliminates any mess and any chance of burning cornmeal. You can sprinkle a little cornmeal on the parchment if you miss that flavor.
Enjoy, Zoë
Hi again,
I have a question about the dough in the bottom of my bucket. It’s been in my fridge for just over one week. When I took it out, the bottom of the bucket was quite wet and the bottom of the dough was also wet, and bit yellowish in colour, compared to the dough on the top. I rolled it out quickly and the super-moist stuff on the bottom got rolled into the middle of the loaf. Is this dough still good to eat, and will it require longer to bake since it is wetter than my previous loaves? How much longer should I leave it in the oven? Thanks so much. You guys are great. Cheers, J
Hi J,
This is totally normal and usually happens when the dough has gone untouched for several days in a row. When you are actively using the dough and sprinkling flour over the top to get the dough out of the bucket, it introduces just enough new flour to essentially feed the yeast and keep the dough vital. Your dough is still great and perfectly great to bake, but as you said it has lost some of its get up and go! You can incorporate some more flour and then let it sit for a while to let the yeast get active again or you can dump fresh ingredients for a new batch on top of it and mix it into your new dough. I do this all the time to jump start the flavor in a new batch.
if you want to bake it as it is, I recommend using it for a flatbread or bake it in a loaf pan so that it can’t spread too much. You want to let it rest longer (30+ extra mins.) and bake longer (10-15 mins).
Hope that helps! Zoë
Zoe,
OOOPS! That was a typo, after checking for the previous post.:
Lonestar Jack said…
June 2, 2009 at 2:11 pm
Would you please adjust the recipe on page 25 to a 5lb bag of flour.
I meant to ask for a one pound BAG of flour! 🙁
What size container should I get to hold a batch this size? And will this type of scaling work with all your recipes–can I make challah with a 5 lb bag of challah by multiplying?
Thanks, sorry for the goof. I was in the middle of baking, and dealing with the cornmeal. Now I understand how to use the parchment–remove it halfway. I had left it on the whole time, and wondered why I didn’t get a nice crust on bottom.
I don’t bake with adding steam/water anymore, so I will remove the parchment paper when I remove the lasagne pans I use to “give steam.”
THANKS, and sorry for the goof.
Judy 🙂
PS–It’s almost August! Then, Sept, then OCTOBER!!! What day in October will the book be coming out???? 🙂
Hi Jeff and Zoe,
If it comes up as a question, the Caramel coloring from DD Williamson (which is what I got from King Arthur) is certified kosher. King Arthur told me it wasn’t, but I called the manufacturer. If someone has questions, here’s the link to the certification page:
https://www.caramel.com/EditorUpload/File/compliance/2009%20Kosher%20powder%20US.pdf
Trying to be helpful to you, you guys are sooo helpful to me!
Judy: The full recipe’s for two pounds of unbleached all purpose, so just divide everything in half to make it for a one-pound bag.
And only use metal pans, like broiler trays to catch water for steam. Readers have reported shattering glass when glass pans are used.
New book’s out on October 27, currently available for preorder on Amazon: https://tinyurl.com/pe8yr9 Jeff
I’m currently waiting for my first batch of chocolate bread dough to chill. Before I waste all that expensive chocolate, are you sure that 35 minutes is sufficient baking time for that one and 1/2 pound loaf at 350 degrees? I know I won’t be able to judge doneness by the color.
Hi Nina,
I have always had wonderful results with this bread at that amount of time. It is crucial to have an oven thermometer, so you are certain that it is running true to the temp you want. If you have any concern about the bread being under baked, remove it from the pan at 35 minutes and themp the bottom, if it isn’t feeling/sounding “hollow” then return the loaf to the oven for another 5-10 minutes.
The reason this bread seems to be done is that you are really allowing it to rise a long time, which will help to lighten the crumb and bake more evenly and quickly.
You are right about the color, it is hard to judge such a dark loaf.
Enjoy! Zoë
I’ve been trying your recipe for light wheat bread, which introduces 1.5 cups whole wheat flour. My dough rises great, but when I pull a piece to shape, the texture is spongy and full of holes. Not stretchy like baguette dough. It also spreads more and is sticky to work with. I keep dusting with flour to shape it. It bakes up with dense chewy texture that can be a bit heavy and tough. Any ideas? I’ve been forming this recipe into baquette shapes instead of rounds– is that part of the problem?
Thanks for your help.
Hi Lisa,
In our new book we introduce an ingredient that makes whole wheat breads rise better and have a lighter crumb. It is called Vital wheat gluten and it is the protein from flour that gives the dough its stretch. You can buy it at most grocery stores in the baking section. Our new book has lots of information about using it. Until then, you can play with adding it to the recipe, just keep in mind that you will need to add more water to compensate for the extra gluten.
With the dough that you already have, it sounds like it may be too wet? The whole wheat dough is definitely not as stretchy, but it shouldn’t be any looser than the master recipe. You could try adding a bit more flour (up to a 1/4 cup, depending on how much dough is left in the bucket) to the batch and then allow it to rest for a couple of hours to let the water absorb into the new flour.
Enjoy, Zoë
Zoe,
The chocolate bread was thoroughly baked and had a good crumb. I had let it rise in the fridge overnight but let it sit awhile anyway before baking it. Since you don’t slash this one, the appearance is quite crackled. It does indeed have a very dark chocolate flavor. Too dark for my other family members but I like it. I didn’t find Valrhona so I used Sharffen Berger. Are the two comparable? How and with what do you usually serve it?
Nina
Hi Nina,
I’m so glad that it worked for you! I love the bread toasted and with marmalade or even with a soft cheese and honey. I have to say my favorite is using it in the bread pudding recipe. Next time you can increase the sweetness a bit if your family would enjoy that flavor better. You could use semi-sweet or milk chocolate instead of bittersweet.
Thank you, Zoë
Hi Jeff,
Sorry for the misunderstanding. I’m not using glass. When I say I remove the “lasagne pans,” I am talking about the foil kind. I use your method of baking without steam by covering my loaves with the foil lasagne pans. But thanks for mentioning it.
Also, I’m not talking about scaling down for a one pound bag, I’m talking about scaling UP for a FIVE pound bag. Do I just multiply all your recipes by a factor to use a five pound bag? And what size dough bucket should I use?
Thanks.
Judy L., TN
Hi Judy,
A five pound bag of flour would be 2.5x the master recipe. You’d need at least 12.5-quart bucket.
Enjoy all that bread! Zoë
I’ve made the master bread recipe a couple of times now but this time something went wrong! It didn’t rise quite as much as usual. And it seems to be much drier on top than normal. I thought “oh well, I’ll work with it anyways”. When I went to pull off a piece to let rest, it was really really moist and sticky underneath. I went ahead and put in out to rest before baking. Do you think it is going to bake up as usual? What should I do if this happens again in the future?
Hi Jamie,
The dryness on the top is from too much air getting in the bucket. You want the gases to be able to escape, but that can happen in a very tiny hole. Too much air circulating and the dough will get dry.
The weepy dough on the bottom sometimes happens if you haven’t used the dough in several days. The yeast continues to snack on the flour and eventually breaks down the structure of the dough. Just the act of sprinkling the top of the dough with flour and taking a piece out of the bucket seems to introduce enough new flour to feed the yeast. If this happens again you can stir in a bit more flour (depends how much dough is left in the bucket) and then let it sit for an hour or so to allow the gluten to form again.
If there isn’t much dough left in the bucket I usually just dump a fresh batch of ingredients right over the old dough and mix it together. This will jump start the flavor of your next batch of dough.
Thanks, Zoë
Hi Jeff and Zoe!
I can’t believe I am baking my own bread! Amazing! I am wondering if you know anything about spelt flour. My friend is highly allergic and can only eat bread products made with spelt flour. Do you think your master recipe would work using only spelt flour?
Thanks, Yael
Hi Yael,
I’ve fallen in love with spelt flour. We use it a lot in our new book. The issue with spelt is that it has a lower gluten content than other wheat flours. This poses a problem for bread baking. For those who just love the flavor of spelt can add a product called vital wheat gluten to the mix, to give the added structure to the dough. This method will NOT work for your friend, because of the wheat/gluten sensitivities. You can try making the master recipe with spelt, but you will need to add about 1/4 cup more water to the dough.
Thanks, Zoë
Help! I mixed up a batch of the master recipe using spelt flour adding 1/4 cup more water. It looked VEEERY liquidy. So I mixed up another batch using just the 3 cups of water and it is also pretty liquidy. I have the dough in the refrigerator. Is there any hope for it? Anything to do to salvage it?
Thanks, Yael
Hi Yael,
You can add more flour to the bucket at any stage, you will just need to let it sit for about an hour to let everything absorb. How did it look once it sat overnight in the refrigerator? Often times the water is absorbed into the flour and it is not as soupy.
Are you measuring the flour with a scoop and sweep method as we talk about in the book? If not, you may not be using enough flour.
Keep me posted. Zoë
Hi Jeff and Zoe,
I was able to post my spreadsheet for recipes in your book that you can make from your various doughs–on the AB5 Yahoo group!!! It’s in the files section. So you can refer people there, if you want.
I would be interested to see Yael’s progress with the spelt bread, also!
Judy